So do you think we may have a problem with ds?

[justoneweeboy]

Please read this and tell me how old you think ds is, I want to see if we might have an issue as he does not seem to be anywhere near his peers.

DS is not toilet trained day or night, has no desire to be. He also resists having a nappy change.

DS does not cope with anything intrusive at all so haircuts, nail cutting, hairwashing, face washing, getting dressed or undressed are all horrible experiences which I dread.

DS is not able to dress himself at all, he can take his socks and shoes off however. DS does not seem to have any desire to do things for himself, like walk although he can, feed himself although he can.

DS cannot ride a trike but can manage a push along the ground one without the peddles, he can run, jump, climb a ladder of about 3 rungs high.

DS does not use park equipment, such as slides, roundabouts, big swings etc, he will go on an infant swing.

DS can talk for England and can put up a fairly good arguement.

DS doesn't play with toys, he demands attention pretty much from dawn to dust and does not seem able to occupy himself. He does enjoy stories and will happily listen to them for up to an hour at times.

DS does enjoy simple computer games and this is the incentive we use to get him to comply with us...(sticker chart type thing). DS has to be in the mood to comply and get the sticker though we hear about it all night long if he doesnt get enough stickers to earn a game (He has to earn 3 a day..1 for using a talking voice to ask for something (only has to do this once but it has to be unprompted) Using very good listening ears and doing what he is asked straight away (again only has to do this once) and last sticker for brushing his teeth top and bottom, back and front without screaming, hitting, spitting or general mayhem)

DS seldom sleeps through the night, I think he has dreams often about not getting stickers apparently.

DS has huge meltdowns!!!!!!!! Time is the only cure for these with as little input from us as possible, we just make sure he is safe we are safe and let him go for it till he calms down. Have tried all the traditional methods but when he is really in one he just has to run out of steam.

Anyway feel free to ask questions but how old would you expect this child to be or is it impossible to tell.

Love from a very very worn out mum as this wee man has been hard work from the get go.

thanks Magrat, I have heard of the pasta jar but sort of thought it might be for older children but will definately give it a go. btw anyone know who the author of that book that was suggested please.

He sounds very intelligent to me. My dd is 5, still wet at night so cross that one off the list.

My dd wasn't fully potty trained in the day till she was 4, so take that one off.

Some kids aren't great at amussing themselves, your ds seems to enjoy interaction in other ways.

Sticker charts can become a very boring focus, and you can get obsessed, he is no more than a baby and can't communicate everything. Try to take it easy, try to give him freedom to be 3 if possible.

Try to take pressure off him, and yourself. He will not be able to think things thru like a 4 or 5 yr old.

He may well have some tendencies towards being a worrier (my dd5 does) and this will be hard enough for him to cope with if he is getting too caught up in the reward thing.

I know its hard, but try to relax a little, and a firm 'no' as suggested will make him realise yo mean business.

Here's a thread.
It's The Highly Sensitive Child ( got the title wrong)

Sorry to disagree with pasta jar, but i think rewards work better when they're not associated with punishment (and therefore unpleasantness) - so only putting them in, not taking them out. If you combine the two (punish and reward) some sensitive children will completely reject the whole system. Use a different set of consequences for bad behaviour, thats linked to the behaviour very immediately - e.g. if you carry on banging that spoon I'll have to take it away.
Think Furball's idea of me-time is essential.

just read your bit about sensitive. My dd 5 is v senstive to everything. To mood, light, touch, noise the lot.

I think she has improved with age and understanding, but I now know its part of here. Iused to think maybe she had some sort of adhd, and at 3 I clearly remember worrying about her. Yet even so age has inproved many of the uptight ways she had.

I think he sounds normal, but you sound stressed. He will pick up on this. Drop the chart. You might just be turning him into a child with low confidence that thinks he is bad and can do nothing right. I think reward charts are a lot of toss for any child under 4 1/2 to be honest. They need lots of understanding, a warm approach and to be guided.

Thanks for that link OhGiveUsAPruniPudding

Another thread
It's by Elaine Aron

he sounds very normal for his age. They are still all quite different at 3.3, IME.

If it were my kid I'd do the following:

1. Stop the stickers. As pruni says, its not really fair. At 3.3, and even now, that is exactly the sort of thing that my ds would have gotten worked up about.

1. Bear in mind-those kids were able to come to your house for the day. A lot of 3.3 yos wouldn't be, tbh.

1. Toilet training is NOT something to worry about at this age. Really not. Honestly.

I think the only thing I'd be even mildly (and very mildly) concerned about here is that he seems quite anxious. Dd is similar, though a bit younger (2.4). She is also very verbal. Our strategy is lots of talking things through, always giving an explaination etc. I wouldn't use any external rewards on her, she really doesn't need them, she is her own strongest critic most of the time .

I totally disagree with that analysis .. I think in any day you can have desired and undesired behaviour (from adults and children alike) .. and that seeing that however you behave can have a consequence reinforces the good and dimishes the bad .... 'sensitive' children (hah .. like all children aren't sensitive in some way) are no different from any other child .. life is about a balance for all of us

It's amazing, isn't it, how different children are.
I know children who thrive on star chartery, they love the feeling of getting rewarded.
Your ds seems not to react to it that way at all. It seems to hurt his confidence (?)
Mine just thinks it's a lot of toss (as Quint says!)!! He tells me he can't do it and almost won't do it in case he fails, I think.

oh and woudn't use a pasta jar either.

I think you have an advantage here in that he is bright and verbal. Can you go with that, rather than punishments, IYKWIM?

BTW, when I read your OP my first thought was that he could be any age up to about 5! SO he is scarcely behind.

I have sympathy for you, my ds (now 5 and an angel) responded very well to praise that wasn't related to him having done anything, but just for him being him iyswim. So rather than just "well done you brushed your teeth" make sure to also say things like "you are such a lovely boy" or 'what a fab smile".

thank you all for your responses, I will look for the book on Sensitive children and scrap the stickers. Scanner thanks DS is like this too and loves to be told we love him just because he is him and that we must be the luckiest mum and dad in the world...it really boosts him, doesnt seem to change much behaviour wise but puts a smile on his dile which counts for alot.

also .. and this is not just relevant to this thread ... it is EXTREMELY important IMHO to tell your children you like them and why

of course you love them, you are their parents so you love them .. but love is non-specific

but liking them because they're lovely people and funny and clever and do nice things ..

it is great to be loved by your parents but it is also good to be liked for the person you are

I do think the 'sensitive child' book is a bit of a misnomer to be honest , why give a child a label if it is not to seek treatment? but this has been discussed ad nauseum

thanks magrat will make a point of telling ds this more often. Anyway my hour is up (he has been at one of the mums whose children I minded the other day) and I need to collect him so thank you to everyone and will try to stay positive and hope that life will get a little easier as time goes by.

I have committed a MN sin of not reading the whole tread but I can hear the kettle boiling

I have answered this directly to the OP. I have taken some of the issues you raised and shared my experiences. I have done this purely not to make light of your situation but to let you know you are not alone. The worst thing for me was other parents with their little comments "is he still in nappies?" "whats wrong with him, why cant he talk?" "oh my children are very socialable and popular" etc etc please bear in mind these comments were made by pre-schoolers parents! I was in a lucky position, as my DS was my 4th so felt confident had he been my 1st I would have gone mad with worry!

re your DS are his toilet training. My youngest DS was over 4 before he was ready (he was too lazy to be bothered before this) Now I know I could have pushed him but I didnt see the point I knew when he felt ready he would do it and he did.

RE: haircuts,hairwashing, face washing, getting dressed etc - both my DS's are odd about these things one hated hair cuts and even now will only allow one particular person to cut his hair (this DS is nearly 11!)
Hates hair washes and hates water near his face!

RE: getting dress himself - MY DS was 5/6 before he started doing this properly. Even now if someone would do it for him he would let them.

3 of my DS couldn't ride a trike using the wheels always scooted along.

My kids preferred the infant swings too. They feel safe and I have to push them so it means I am near to them.

RE: Your DS can talk for England. -Yeah I can relate to this but getting them to say hello to adults they dont know very well is impossible.(ie: my friends) Infact my little chatterbox at home wouldnt speak to anyone outside the home until he was nearly 5! not even his grandparents

I didn't however suffer from bad sleeping just early rising so I have no experience but can imagine how tiring this can be.

My DD can meltdown big style and can still have tantrums at 12yo!! I walk away! When she was little I would just say "let me know when you are finished" and turn my back on her(keeping a discreet eye of course)

Sorry for the long post I just wanted to let you know you are not alone and you should be confident that you know your LO best and you should do what is right for you and him not for anyone else.

Off to have a coffee now!

I am so glad you've decided to bin the stickers. I think that a pasta jar sounds a better idea specially if you do as kayjay says and ONLY make it a positive thing, only put a piece in when he's good etc.

However I never used any formal rewards/punishments like this and it is very possible not to. Specially if your ds is bright, sensitive and articulate you are likely to be much better off really talking to him and relating to him in a sincere and genuine way. I'm not explaining it very well I don't think; but it is possible not to have to use these 'schemes', as long as you do as others have said here and tell him every day what he's doing well, what you like about him, etc etc; it depends on you noticing everything good that he does and letting him know you've noticed so it's quite labour intensive but well worth it in terms of a positive relationship.

He does sound very normal, some of what you list could apply to my ds who is five and a bit!

So have lots of faith in him, lower your expectations; I would say children who dress themselves, brush teeth alone, and are dry day and night would be by far the exception at this age; your ds more in line with what's normal.

Magrat, I know what you mean but a) I was quite sensitive as a child and I know that's how my parents thought, with the result that rather than nurturing me a bit when I needed it (it's not that hard) they decided to tell me I was oversensitive, constantly, with the result that I had virtually no self esteem for years. When what you are feeling is so out of synch with what you are hearing about yourself, you just withdraw, it's really avoidable and damaging imo. You can't articulate that as a child, either, so they probably thought they were doing their best by not pandering and by toughening me up - they couldn't have been more wrong.
And b) I have what I would call a very intense child, and just like I would want to treat any adult with sensitivity, so I want to know how to do the same with my child. Sometimes I really don't understand him. You mentioned balance earlier - well, that's what it's about. If you don't really 'get' what's going on with your child, and you are permanently mentally knackered, it's worth helping yourself and the child, I think. It's not about labels, it's more about balance.

you make good points there Pruni

justoneweeboy - I forgot to say, my ds now goes to a Montessori nursery, and the leader there is always on hand to talk things through and give pointers - I haven't really used her formally in that way but is something like that an option for you? I know some days when I have been at the end of my tether, she has really helped with a kind of lightbulb comment, iykwim.

I don't know why but I got the feeling he was older than 4, about 6 for some reason. Sorry if I have caused offence.

Thanks magrat

I agree with other posters: the things you list are not normal for 3-year-olds, you've been unlucky by having your expectations raised to an impossible pitch by associating with a couple of unusually forward children. Doesn't necessarily mean those kids will be anything to write home about in 5 years time.
My children did not clean their own teeth until they were about 5, and not without supervision until 6. They did not get dressed unaided until they started school. My ds is now in junior school and though he dresses himself he is still quite capable of going to school with his trousers on back to front if I don't keep an eye. Would probably do them inside out and upside down too, if he got a chance. At least 3 of my nephews were still in nappies by age 4, though my kids were a bit earlier on that particular score.