My 3 yr old does not like my 4 mth old! Any bonding tips?

[MumRocks]

I really need some tips on how to deal with my sons dislike for his 4 month old brother. DS1 turned 3 just a month ago. We prepared him for the birth really well: stories, role-play, got him a baby Ben doll. But from the very second he laid eyes on him in hospital he has not really liked him. He will take every opportunity to hit or hurt the baby. We have tried telling him off, confiscating toys, naughty corner, positive praise and now we are stuck. In the begining I am sure I did not deal with it effectively as I was quite zombified from all the tiredness that comes with having a newborn. Now the baby sleeps much better I really want to nip this in the bud & help my kids bond as my hubby grew up disliking his older brother & to this day they still don't get on well. I certainly don't want that for my kids!!

I had a real low with my two at about the same age for the youngest (I think it was 5.5 months). My issue was that I wasn;t getting on with my eldest (rather than eldest and youngest not getting on).

I found it helpful to set up a weekly '1:1' activity with my eldest. In my case, I took my eldest swimming, and left the youngest with a friend who childminds.

It really helped. I found that when I took out my daughter without little brother she seemed much younger. Sweetly, after we'd been out for an hour or two, she'd remind me not to forget to go back for little brother. Absence apparently made the heart grow fonder.

I also put the youngest in a routine. Then I could help my daughter anticipate 'now I have to be patient, but when Ds will sleep after lunch we can do painting/dancing/whatever'.

Also, my eldest has found my youngest more fun since he's crawled. They can 'play' together now.

I could have written that post earlier in year as dd1 was 2.4 when dd2 arrived in January, she disliked her because I was away for 4 days (planned section so had talked to her about it and she had stayed away but never more than one night form me)

When dd2 was 3 weeks old dd1 tipped the moses basket over and dd2 landed on the wooden floor resulting in trip to a and e.

She would fight for my attention and I assumed she was being naughty where all she wanted was some 1:1 attention. When dd2 was sleeping and when I could I'd try soem time doing colouring etc it was never for long as there were always things that needed to be done etc.

Dh and DD1 have become a alot closer as before dd2 arrived dd1 preferred to be with me, when dd2 arrived dh often took dd1 with him if he popped out and he preferred an active toddler to the sleeping newborn.

Now 11 months later they really do love each other and actually 'play' together (well dd1 gets stuff out and dd2 touches it all) on the whole as soon as dd2 started sitting/moving dd1 warmed to her as she saw her as a little person rather than this thing that took all my time up. As I type this dd1 is building mini towers from blocks for dd2 to knock down when she has finished having her nap . Plus dd2 goes to preschool few mornings a week and gets to do all the messy stuff that we cant always do because dd2 around and it gives me and dd2 some time together on our own

You guys are so reassuring! Thank you. Now that you mention it, DH & DS1 are alot closer than before. I've been a little jealous of how DH gets to have such good behaviour from him while I get all the aggro! I can't wait until DS2 is a bit older so they can interact. But I have still gone & spent a large sum on amazon on some parenting books that focus on coping with 2 or more kids!

loopymumsy: I did try the baby likes you stuff but that just made DS1 really cross with him! I will leave it a week or two before I start it up again.

I had this with my two lovelies

Hideous especially when they hurt the little one. All your protective instincts offended

One trick I used that really seemed to work: Go with your older one and sit on the floor in his room, wherever, and watch him doing something clever - setting up his train, making an 'invention', you know - and when he is absorbed in it, start talking to the baby (who is on your lap) about wht big brother is doing, in a 'isn't he clever' sort of voice. It always produced a secret smile on my big boy's face. It puts the focus onto him instead of the baby.

Another thing - sit him down with you and have a sensible talk, about how you know he doesn't care much for the baby, but you have got two children whom you love very much, and will not let anyone hurt either of them - not him, and not the baby. So when he hurts the baby, it hurts you in your heart.

It seemed to sink in with mine.

So hard for them, but bear in mind that if he really did hurt the baby he would be distraught. It's just his anger/grief/confusion coming out. It will fade

Agree that 'baby likes you' is almost guaranteed to produce an angry wince!!!!

I would also tell your eldest that it's okay that he doesn't always like his little brother and it's okay that he wishes he had you all to himself like he used to. That comes from the siblings without rivalry book - they need to know that understand how they feel and that those feelings are normal although it is not okay to hurt people just because you don't like them IYSWIM

Sorry Loopy, hadn't read whole thing before I posted...similar thing but emphasis on bigger child, rather than baby like you, saying to baby: 'Isn't ...clever!' So talking about the older one. Subtle difference but worth a try!!

Twinklyflightattendant (how cute!): I really like your advice. The watching & talking tactic is very subtle. I will try it this pm. And the 1 to 1 conversation sounds so logical. The wisdom of other mums is so wonderful. Am I normal in wondering why I can't come up with similar tactics?

Aha! Well this is probably the only topic that I can help with Not a clue about the rest!!!!
My two are getting there slowly, but we have our setbacks!

Good luck x

i think twinkly's approach sounds great, and I also think it's really important to allow your child to not like the baby and to feel angry, as cargirl said, they need to be told "I understand, and it's ok to feel that way".....there's nothing so depressing as someone not understanding. Some of the anger might evaporate if he just feels understood.

I think kids have such intense feelings that it's just an insult to be told "you must love this baby and he loves you" - in fact the baby is the source of all sorts of annoyances, mainly loss of one to one time and taking away mum's attention! No wonder they feel resentful!

Yes Honoria there seems to be a period of grieving for the exclusivity they have always known, which is totally understandable. My elder couldn't look me in the eye for about 3 days, he was so furious and felt so betrayed I think...partly that I was stuck in bed and he hates me being ill anyway, but of course the fact I had a small creature permanently attached to my person was just an insult.
My mother took him for those few days much of the time - he played up, was angry, cross etc. but never said how he felt. Then we had to rebuild. He had been sleeping in my bed all along and including this time, but on about the 3rd night after another bout of the baby crying, he just lost it - someone, something had invaded his space, he couldn't sleep himself, couldn't bear the crying...he got up and ran out of the bedroom, hands over his ears, and of course I held him then and the tears just poured and poured.
That was our turning point. He was much less difficult afterwards, though still rough with baby etc. I think that night of me repeating over and over how much I loved him and was sorry, and understood, must have helped a little bit as he was 'with' me again. I really had felt as though I had lost him.
We also laugh at the baby sometimes, the silly things he does, that kind of thing. I had been near despair in the first few weeks, but gently they began to integrate and I guess that was inevitable because we were all together 24/7.
The first genuine hug between them was very touching. There have been many more since.
I hope yours end up friends too

Twinkly that is such a lovely post, you've clearly worked so hard with your two and you sound such a lovely mum

i think it's easy to forget how hard it is for children to adapt to siblings. Sometimes it's a real, visceral, primeval sort of struggle! Because society is SO geared towards multiple children being the 'right' thing to do, the accepted norm, we sometimes think it will be easier than it is. Kids don't know about social constructs or even about the possible future benefits of having a sibling!!

Totally agree with Twinkly and Honoraria and beautifully put by both.

Would just add, my 3.10 yr old dd1 (who sometimes does not like her 12 month old sister one bit) seemed to get a lot of relief from a chat about what was making her angry.

Intially, this was dd2 getting lots of attention - but more recently its been about dd2 grabbing toys. This is probably more relevent when your 4 mo starts crawling, but: we had a big chat about space...hers, dd2's, shared/family space. Now she's clear that downstairs is family space, and up for grabs, but that her own room is hers, and dd2 hsa to be invited in - or can be asked to leave (via a grown up).

I did a lot of telling dd1 that I understood how furious she felt at having her space invaded, that I'd sometimes felt like that when I was little and had a baby brother (this works especially well, she sort of listens harder) and we worked on finding solutions that worked for her (eg putting her dolls house in her room where dd2 can't get to it) and figuring out how she can let us know she needs space/time out from her sister before things get too much for her.

eg she will occasionally say 'mummy, I feel like hitting M' and I'll say 'well done for telling me', and ask her what she needs (its usually space or attention). She's never actually hit her, as a result.

And after a whole year, they're finally starting to play together - especially in the bath, where they can 'gang up' at splashing Mummy

Sorry, Honoria...I shouldn't type late at night

I'm another late one!
Twinkly - you made me cry! Seriously! I feel like picking my poor little boy out of bed and just holding him tight! I miss him so much too.
Elibean - you have just given me a super warning as to what lies in store for me. DS1 has not fought for space yet, but he thinks nothing of going into the baby's room to trash his toys & bits. I suppose he's after a reaction. I had better set some boundries there soon.
I have to thank you all for the wonderful stories you have shared and advice you have given. It really does mean alot to me to know that other mum's have gone through this & come out the other end with positive results.

while the LO is tiny, do some things alone with DS1, it will take all of your family time to adjust and the baby will always be an adaptable little person!

when the younger one gets to a year old or so, they become a little person and therefore "playmate". We have exactly the same age gap between DS1 and DS2. I think to an extent it is also a personality thing. my boys are now 4 & 7 and get on very well, although their characters and interests are total opposites! In the first year of DS2's life i thought it would never happen DS1 used to push him over as soon as he could sit or stand, and was generally unpleasant in every way.
A wise friend of mine said never make the older child feel responsible for the younger one in any way, at any age, because it builds resentment in the elder child and possibly both of them. At this age you think "eh?" but as they get older you see situations where it could arise if you were not aware of it.
We also try to do lots of activities which they can all enjoy at their own level, and the interaction with each other is optional, though i must say that now they want to do things together. we still give them time separately and they do very different things to follow their own interests (football club versus swimming club, versus arty design stuff)
with parents as thoughtful as you and the fact that you are 'on to' this one now, i think that you have the best chance of success. just think though, don't try to rush it all. Remember how much your life has changed over the past few months - it is at least that much for him and probably a bit more. Try not to worry over it, you are gonna do your best for them and the result may just take two or three years like it has for us.
Good luck

My DS1 was 2.7 when DS2 came along and after the first few days he definitely had a dislike for his brother! He often used to hurt him. When DS2 got to about 6 months and was crawling DS1 started being nicer and by the time DS2 was 1 and quite happy to be told what to do by his brother things got even better. They still fight now though at 4.10 & 7.5 and DS1 still picks on DS2 but they are very good friends a lot of the time too.

I think its a great idea to let your DS1 know it is okay to not like his brother but that as you love them both it hurts you when he hurts your DS2.