DD getting more naughty- me getting more impatient!!

[zephyrcat]

What can I do with dd. She is 2.11 and being a real little s**t!!!! We started giving her time outs until she would come and say sorry. Which progressed to assking her to go to her room (something i never really wanted to do) But now as soon as i even say her name and she knows shes done something she says 'sorry sorry sorry' In theory I cant tell her off after she's said shes sorry because that defeats the object of getting her to say it. BUT she knows exactly what she's doing and exactly how to win us over. As much as I yell at her - take things away from her etc she doesn't really care, just says sorry. Its really starting to get me down as I feel like I'm losing all control of her!! It could well be an attention thing as I now have 4month old ds too - but again - how do i deal with it? This morning she got holsd of a tube of our acrylic paints and painted the wall. I shouted at her and told her to go upstairs while i cleaned up. When i got upstairs she was in our room watching tv.
Any ideas?????? !!!!

I think it's annoying but very normal to put paint on walls at the age of two. Sorry! I went upstairs recently to grab something and returned to a green kitchen (formerly white). Is she really particularly badly behaved or are you particularly knackered and overstretched, do you think?

I'd say it's probably more of the latter!!! It just feels like she's going out of her way to be naughty though which is what made me think it could be attention. She defaced the whole house when we first moved in so i repainted the whole house and she's doing it again lol. It's probably just me being tired from the little one. At the same time tho how do I get 'sorry' to mean something again?

Hi zephyrcat,
this sounds sooooo familiar! My dd 2.10/11 has started being more naughty as well since we've had ds, 9 weeks. I think you might be right about the attention seeking, though I think it's more of a 'let's see what I can get away with now that mummy is busy with sibling...'. Also my patience levels are far less as constantly tired and trying to get used to coping with 2 kids round the house.

As for getting sorry to mean something again. If she says it straight away and repetitively she obviously knows she's been naughty and is trying to fend of a telling off. I got around that by still sitting her down with me and telling her exactly what I wasn't impressed with. The only problem I've got is that she actually runs to her room for a tantrum if I tell her off! So 'go to your room' doesn't exactly work. Can't do time outs either as she gets rather destructive that little sod!

Not much help I know but though it might help to know you're not the only one out there!

thanks MrsBigD - its means the world to know it's not just me being useless with her that's making her do it! Our other problem is her throwing things. She throws everything. If i tell her off for anything she shouts back at me evewn louder. even worse - when she's throwing stuff or putting on a performance in front of ds he has started laughing at her which makes her 100 times worse!!

It might be attention-seeking, but also I know in my case if I feel anxious, pushed for time or worried then everything my ds does feels much worse and more intolerable, so my first reaction is to wonder what would happen if you just let things go a bit temporarily and gave more hugs, storytime etc etc. Sometimes if I'm getting angry, just giving ds a cuddle can help us both calm down. Also, I think 'sorry' is terribly overrated in little ones. I'm not sure that small children really do fully comprehend the concept so it's just a word to them (as your dd has found!) and we load it with so much meaning. I don't insist on it with ds at all, though at just over three he has started using it spontaneously. I would let that go. I hope I don't sound smug or anything. I have felt ashamed of how cross I have got in the past, and in my experience it's more about me than ds. And I'm sure I will experience it all much more intensely when my baby arrives in Feb.

my dd is exactly the same age as yours, zephyrcat, and (may i disagree with you for once, aloha? well, this is a first) i think that nearly 3 is certainly old enough to know that painting the kitchen is wrong.
dd also has tendency to be a bit glib with 'sorry'. to get around that i get down and make her into my eyes while she says it. i thank her for saying it (it is important to me that she does), and i ask her why she's saying it, if she knows what she has done. then if she looks serious, as if she has taken it on board and understands what the whole fuss was about, i give her a big hug and say thankyou again and let her go.
do believe that bad behaviour is vv connected with how much attention i'm lavishing (or not) on her. at teatime, if i sit down and read a story before making the tea (if she has just come back from the nannyshare or whatever), she is much better behaved than if i prioritise the tea, however hungry she seems.

Zephyrcat

I know this so well, esp. the child shouting back at you, and throwing things.

Can I suggest these strategies?

1. Try not to shout. It took me ages to realise that you can tell off without shouting, but it works. Cultivate a VERY cross expression, and a fairly menacing tone of voice, which may even be quieter than your normal voice. Save it for really naughty behaviour. Shouting does just become a contest with toddlers if you are not careful.
2. Don't send her out of your sight when she's naughty. Have a chair or corner in the room where she must stay when she's been naughty. If she moves, calmly but fairmly put her back there. Use a kitchen timer. Say 'You must stay there quietly for 2 minutes, until the timer rings'. If she shouts or moves, start the timer again, keep going until she has completed the 2 minutes.
3. Have a treat/activity/outing planned for some part of the day. tell her 'if you can be good until X, then we will do Y'. If she is naughty, tell her 'Now we can't do Y, because you have been naughty'. It teaches her responsibility for her actions.
4. Thrown toys are taken away, and put in the bin (or hidden for a very long time). Thrown other things are put out of reach, and she sits on the chair for the prescribed time.
5. Try to involve her in what you are doing. If you need to change the baby ask her to fetch the wipes, or talk to baby while you change him. Try to read to her while feeding, and devote some time in the day just for her.

and remember to praise good behaviour much more than seems reasonable, cos that is what you are aiming at.

It dsoesn't come easily, and I've never had to do it with 2 in the house. but if you work at it it should come right eventually

I have a slightly different suggestion. I think that what you are seeing is totally normal behavior (which does't mean that it's acceptable of course) considering that your dd has a brand new baby in the house taking attention away from her, AND exhausting you. Maybe it's worth trying to rethink your approach to your schedule and your day and figuring out how to include your dd in your activities (as unexciting as they may be) with your ds. For example, if you are changing a nappy, get dd to pull out the wipes...let her do a bit of wiping, put the old nappy in the bin. My ds (older than dd by 22 months) used to love participating like this. And we ended up getting very little of the attention-seeking-there's-a-new-sibling-in-the-house behavior that often happens. It does make everything take a whole lot longer, but it really was time saving in the end, because we didn't have to do damage control afterwards for attention seeking misbehavior.
That said, I would totally echo everything Easy has said for dealing with misbehavior and bakedpotato for age reference. My dd is only just two and knows perfectly well that drawing on the wall is not ok.

Thanks all for your advice. It is just what I needed to stop and think about what I'm doing. I know exactly where I'm going wrong and I know what I should be doing with her - I've just gotten so wrapped up in other stuff thats going on and bringing me down that I've been getting very short tempered with her. You are all right in the things you have all said. She does respond well to a little extra 'just me and mummy' time. She helps with everything do do with ds, she loves him to bits and vice versa - they amazingly 'close' even though he is only 4 months. I must get my head in order and give her what she needs!!!!