Personality or ASD?

[Bombleton]

So my 4 year old son is autistic. We knew from when he was maybe 5 months. Textbook things like not looking for me, not interested in his surroundings, not reaching for toys, very quiet, no babbling. Content in a peculiar way. I had to teach him most of his gross motor skills through physio, but he wasn't particularly motivated to do anything really.

My baby girl is 8.5 months. She presents differently in that she knows who I am. She smiles when she sees me, she cries when I leave, she knows when she is hungry, she smiles at family members and sometimes at strangers. If I say "where is dog dog?" She will look for him and the same for family members.

But there are few similarities. She can't crawl (she wants to but I suspect some hypermobility/hypotonia - i have had her referred her to physio).
She babbles "babababa" but it is monotonous and not in response to anything particularly.
Very little reciprocal communication.
She doesn't engage with much humour.
Not really much imitation. If I stick my tongue out at her, she does blow raspberries.
If I play peekaboo, she just looks and smiles. The only chuckles I get are when I do tickle games (round and round the garden). She rarely responds to her name.

She is so pleasant and content, but she isn't much of a go getter if you know what I mean. Do you think it could be personality or anything more? I have an appointment with a paediatrician on Wednesday but I'm not sure that they will be looking predominantly at development. Besides, I have very little trust in medical professionals after the experience I have had with my son xxx

Um.
Is 8.5 months correct?
Only, I wouldn't expect most dc to crawl until they are around 9 months, and even then there is a range. Who has referred her to a physio at this stage?
On what grounds have you been referred to a Paediatrician ?

I realise once you have had an older child with additional needs, you can be very much looking for difficulties in younger siblings, but I am not sure you might be expecting too much from a little one who hasn't yet reached 9 months.

Thank you for your reply ❤

This is half my problem. I don't know what is normal development and now due to restricted baby groups, I have nothing to compare with. Only Facebook photos and videos where people post to show off achievements.

I am definitely looking for problems.

The paediatrician she has been referred to for a second opinion about a birth mark on her head (which has now all but disappeared). But that same side of her face is bigger than the other (which an opthamologist said is probably due to normal facial asymmetry).

I rang physio to advise I had some concerns about potential hypotonia and hypermobility due to not pushing up straight with her arms and being a bit floppy when she is being held (instead of arms and legs tucked up a bit). Physio said they would like to take a look at her and asked for the GP to review her and refer her in. GP saw her and due to the concerns regarding the birthmark, and my concerns regarding gross motor skills and communication, they have referred her again to a paed who agreed to see her 2 weeks later xxx

@Kite22

Um. Is 8.5 months correct? Only, I wouldn't expect most dc to crawl until they are around 9 months, and even then there is a range. Who has referred her to a physio at this stage? On what grounds have you been referred to a Paediatrician ?

I realise once you have had an older child with additional needs, you can be very much looking for difficulties in younger siblings, but I am not sure you might be expecting too much from a little one who hasn't yet reached 9 months.

Shouldn't she be responding to her name by now xxx

Hi @Bombleton I can't tell you nothing for sure, as you probably remember my post being in the same situation, but I am reading studies about heritability of asd and saw something encouraging: that in kids having a sibling with ASD it is very common to have autistic traits even they don't meet the diagnostic criteria.

Oh really!? How interesting! I've been all over the shop back and forth worrying about her 🙈

Took her to the paediatrician today and he was totally unconcerned and told me that even if he was to tell me not to worry it wouldn't stop me from worrying. He said that he understood why I was anxious and hyperfocused on development due to my experience with my son. It helped a bit.

Unfortunately, the first paediatrician we saw with my son when he was 6 or 7 months old wrote "first time anxious parents, mother obsessed with milestones".

I'm certainly not as worried as I was with my son, because there are some reassuring things about her.

Maybe if I take your information about younger siblings it would help. I've seen somewhere that siblings of older autisti siblings don't babble as much as siblings with NT older siblings. But the kids that I have seen in groups are the first born and she doesn't babble as much as they do 🤷‍♀️

Anyway I'm going round in circles again. I'm not massively worried about her being autistic in itself, it's more the fight to get her diagnosed and correct support in place.....if needs be.

Thank you for replying anyway xxx would love to hear how you get on xxx

At 8.5 months old that all sounds normal to me to be honest. But I can understand why you might worry.

@surreygirl1987

At 8.5 months old that all sounds normal to me to be honest. But I can understand why you might worry.

Thank you for your reply. Fingers crossed time will tell xxx

Hi @Bombleton , it's me again. Can I ask you about your DS?
Was he cooing when he was about 3-5 mo or was silent all time? (my son was almost completly silent that age, and doesn't speak yet (2 yo) - just started to use some words.) When did your DS learned to speak? Thank you xx have a nice day!

He was silent until he was about 2 years old. Apart from the crying during meltdowns. His language acquisition was atypical in the sense that he acquired a vocabulary of 200 words in a month or so.

He used learned phrases for 2 years after that and has in the past few months started to have a bit more spontaneous speech. But it reminds me of bambi tries to walk. It's a bit clumsy as he is getting used to the free reign. He can communicate his needs and wants just fine though. And cannot get under SALT despite his difficulties. And school don't recognise any issues. Only if you really know what you are looking for can you tell he has no idea what he is conversing about xxx

Thank you bumbleton! How different our children are. My DS always looked in the eyes until his first bday, he had no sleeping /eating problems. He was very silent, cooed sometimes, but I was worrying by the time he was 4 mo. I remember that evening when I was watching him and crying because I had that bad feeling something was just wrong, and my DH said I just need some time out. Since that I started a diary and I took notes on his development every month not to worry with future second child on every little delay.
You can guess now it's not really comforting :/ I took him to paed too, and had same answers like you: "overworrying first time parents" "don't read those sites on internet" "shut youtube down".

And until he was 18 mo he apparently catched the most important milestones expect communication. By the time he had 5-6 animal sounds and was bubbleing a lot. But HV had issues because he couldn't play with toys and didn't call us mommy/daddy. I was 6 months pregnant already. (Later turned out HV has a son with asd)
ooh and the meltdowns since he was 1yo... And his obsession with the washing machine and wheels. It was sooo obvious.
DD is different to my DS. But different to other babies as well. She has poor eye contact from the beginning but more vocal. She is really placid and always got compliments everywhere how good baby she is. She smiles back but doesn't seem to seek for interactions. I donno, i'm hopeing really she's just a bit slow developing baby nothing else.
So I took her to paed last month too and I was told the same f* things, and that I shouldn't compare DD to anybody and told me I needed some help. I came out crying. YES she does KNOW our situation.
Sorry for long post it just had to come out!

I can't believe school doesn't see the need of salt for your DS. It's so worrying when you're left alone with these problems.
Currently we started to introduce PECS with DS, I watched on youtube how to start. I can't wait ages to be considered and we already feel the benefits.

Hi @Bombleton how are you with your little girl?

I didn't see these replies sorry!

So yeah, she failed her 12 month check. They did it at 11.5 months. So the woman was swinging between OTT "We need to get her under paeds and the early development service asap" to "let's give her 3 months at nursery to see how she gets on" to "well it's not my decision, I need to speak to your HV and see what she thinks".

Not heard from either one of them since. That was 3 weeks ago. I'm not chasing them up. I still have my Concerns, but the way I see it....she might be autistic, but she doesn't strike me as having the learning disabilities that my son had. So as long as she is progressing and learning things in her own way and in her own time, I'll let her be.

Since the 12 month check (3 weeks ago) she now babbles mamamama for my attention (but only as a last resort) she says "doh doh" for dog and "dada" for dad.

She points, but not really with purpose. She has JUST yday started putting her hands over her eyes for peekaboo. And over her toys faces too. She hugs her teddies.

She lacks shared attention, in my opinion. Like she doesn't point and ask me for things or point and show me things. She just points.

I spoke with nursery key worker. She said nothing jumps out at her as being a problem. But that doesn't reassure me because to this day no one can see my son's problems. Apart from the diagnosing team...

Anyway, I am 50:50. Not convinced there is an issue. Not convinced there isn't. But certainly not as concerned about her cognitive development as I was my son's.

How are u getting on?!

Just reading through my original post. She learned to crawl the day before she turned 10 months.

I saw physio about a month ago. They confirmed she was about 2 months behind. Said they are finding that it is really common to see this post lockdown babies. Said because they haven't been exposed to the same level of classes or soft play etc, it's had a knock on effect. Interestingly, she said they expect babies to be walking by 12 months, although they have til 18 months, they like to see them walking at 12. But because my baby is 2 months behind they expect her to be a late walker. (So I presume she should be walking by 14 months).

I mentioned I spent the first 6 months cuddling and carrying her everywhere so she hadn't been exposed to tummy time. They said well at least u started at 6 months, but yes that would contribute to a delay. They said they would call me back in 2 months to make sure she is progressing how they expect her to be.

Also, she is still completely chilled. But she does engage with humour and interact more than she did do. She copies more. But only like in the past week.

Apparently they have til 12 months and 30 days to pass the 12 month check. And I think she was born 12 days before her due date (officially 7 days before due date) so I'm giving her 12 months and 42 days before I get worried.

I've also started her with weekly cranial osteopathy (because it helped my son so much) so it's obviously on my mind still 😂

Hello, I'm glad you gave a little update thank you!
I see our kids moving on a pretty similar track!
I think it's really good that your little girl is developing continously, even if it's a bit slower than average. It’s also great that she started playing peekaboo and pointing!
' so I'm giving her 12 months and 42 days before I get worried' I laughed so much at this, I always do this!! My daughter was also born 2 weeks earlier.

Thank you so much for writing! I very much hope that my DD catches up like yours!
Yet, my DD is delayed in all areas. She didn't start crawling yet but tries hard. We started EI where they mentioned the lack of interest in social play and that she's a bit silent. :( She has a great name response which I find promising, but lately she started a headshaking which makes me a bit sad.
So I do the waiting game just like you and hopeing for the best!

@Bombleton how is ur girl now? is she fine.

Erm...she's doing well. Like compared to my son, a completely different kid.

A few words. Lots of babbling. I question whether it's back and forth or meaningful, but to be honest, I'd have never have questioned that much detail if it wasn't for my son.

But she likes a you tube video called tooty ta. And will point to the TV and say "tooty ta der' meaning put it on.

Which is technically joining two words together.

She isn't walking but walks on her knees. She is shy and reserved unless in her comfort zone. Like I take her to a dance group and have been doing for 3 months. Last week was the first time she left my knee and wandered around...on her knees.

I'm fairly confident that it's personality. My son is autistic, I kind of suspect I am, my side of the family certainly have a lot of traits, so I wouldn't be too surprised if she is autistic. But does not have as high needs or comorbidities as my son does, if that makes sense.

She is hypermobile hence the "late" walking and knee walking xxx

@Bombleton is ur asd son used to raise hands to picked up or cry to be held or search for his mom?

He is autistic not ASD 😂

No he didn't pick his hands up to be held. Until he was after 1. And even then it wasn't reliable.

My daughter was late with it. But hypermobility delayed it. She had the motivation but not the capability.

My son lacked both.

He was silent for the first 3 months, didn't cry for food or attention. Still to this day doesn't recognise hunger and/or communicate it.

He didn't turn his head to my voice or look for me when I went out the room. From new born I could put him in his moses basket and he wouldn't make a peep. Just look at the ceiling til he fell asleep. Wouldn't wake me through the night for a feed. Wouldn't wake me up in the morning. I'd wake up and he would be in the basket next to me just chilling. Not making a sound or a movement.

Didn't kick his legs or reach or bat for toys. He is dyspraxic and I think that's a sign for that. Didn't explore his body (look at his hands or put his feet in his mouth).

He has his struggles now, but is in mainstream reception, has a lovely group of friends, very sociable. Doing really well xxx

Is everything OK your end?

@Bombleton i also have worries for my son as he is 9 months vary silent baby rarely babble. but otherwise seems fine cry for me , wants to be held , he always search for me . cry until i picked up him. good eye contact, he cry if i leave room and started to follow me by crawling.
for name recognisition m not sure , he knows or not. but rarely makes any sound througout the day.

My daughter was the same. Name recognition is around 12 months so still early.

She started babbling none stop at around 14 months.

I read somewhere back when I first posted that it almost doesn't matter if they are later with vocalisations as long as its done in the right order. I.e. cooing, then ba and da, then baba and dada, then rhythmic babbling, then conversational babbling.

Something like that. Might not be accurate. But I also read that communication at this age is more Important than speech/babbling etc because its about the motivation to want to communicate. Which my daughter had but my son didn't.

So things like looking for u, reaching, crying etc.

So yeah, I think everything sounds OK from what u say xxx

Hi there. Just wanted to ask how things went for you.
My DD is 16 months fails M-CHAT with 4-5 points and I can clearly see we're heading a dx.
:( I am feeling so so alone. I've never ever meet someone with two autistic kids . It just feels so injust. Sorry if it sounds harsh but it's so so hard.

It's actually not that uncommon, especially if you think that there is a strong family history of autism in most cases.

Now I know what autism is, I can see it in myself, my husband and both sides of our family.

Still not sure about my DD, but I wouldn't be surprised if she is autistic. She is very different in presentation to my son though.

I think I panicked when I wrote my original post, because I was focusing on the meltdowns and the problems my son faces. Not to mention the neverending battle with services and school.

There is actually a lot of positives that come with autism. And I think the best thing we can do for our one or two autistic children is clear our lenses and see that it's not all bad.

As always, just raise your concerns with your health visitor etc and start documenting a history ready for if you need a diagnosis

and be wary of the ableism that has been drummed into you xxx