Cry it out

[PlanetTeaTime]

Saw someone make a comment about cry it out on social media and it got me thinking

Is it possible that parents leaving their children to cry could be the reason so many people are now struggling with their mental health nowadays?

What do you think?

I'm not sure what I think

This has certainly occurred to me, though only as a theory and I have no evidence to back this up. So I am not condemning people who do cry it out because I know no more than anyone else on this (just to get that out there).

I think there's a line of logic you could follow in that, if you look at it in terms of attachment styles in adults (secure, anxious, avoidant, fearful) you may be laying the groundwork for a less secure, anxious attachment when your baby 'learns' that you won't necessarily go to them when they cry at night. This then would presumably inform their attachment styles in adulthood, though not necessarily result in mental ill health.

Conversely, I've read elsewhere that there's no substantial evidence to say this has long term consequences, so long as you are loving and attentive the rest of the time.

I didn't do cry it out, though was tempted enough to try it once. It was like getting stabbed in the heart listening to him cry and I ended up managing with various degrees of co-sleeping until about 2 yrs. At 2.5 years he can fall asleep on his own. The people who told me over and over that I was condemning myself to bed sharing til he was 10 were proven, ahem, wrong. It took awhile but I stuck to my stubborn belief that humans do not need to be 'taught' how to fall asleep ;-)

@Scratchybaby

Yes I suspect that's going to be me!

I think regardless, you just have to follow you instincts and if it feels wrong then you shouldn't do it

Yep. I haven't lived to regret not doing it. It's been maddening at times but I think I'm about out of the woods now. At the end of the day human beings have been learning to fall asleep on their own for tens of thousands of years all around the world, sleeping with their families in all sorts of household arrangements, and certainly without Gina Ford. Cry it out techniques could be just one small part of a much bigger picture of how children are raised in rich Western countries and how it impacts their mental health.

Ridiculous! 🙄

CIO (more accurately known as controlled crying) was much more popular in the 80s than it is now.

I think it's a lot more complicated than that. Leaving your baby to CIO in the context of otherwise loving and supportive parenting is unlikely to be a sole cause for MH problems. However, in the context of the society we currently live in?... parents on average aren't spending the same quality time with their kids in those crucial first few years. Often both parents have to work so many babies are in childcare from a very young age. In addition to this people generally don't have the same support network as they used to. It's commoner for grandparents for example to live a long distance away from their children and we don't tend to know our neighbours as well as we used to and there isn't that same community spirit as there used to be. On top of this kids are also not as free to truly play together, take risks and learn to negotiate relationships with each other, as they used to be. This is a massive part of growing up emotionally regulated and self aware. On top of this we have 'mental health' constantly drummed into us which is a good thing but not when there's a fundamental misunderstanding about it. There's a big difference but a fine line between a mental health condition and an expected reaction to a difficult life event and a personality type which has difficulty coping with these natural challenges in life. The problem is also that our mental health care is grossly underfunded and many of the most poigniant MH issues take years and a lot of commitment from the sufferer to 'recover from'. Also, because healthcare services are so oversubscribed it's very preoccupied with managing risk rather than this long term recovery but the problem is with certain behavioural traits such as self harm the more we manage that risk the more some people 'depend' on that risk and their risky behaviour intensifies to meet that. I don't think we really need to ask why there's worsening mental health in our country. I think we have to ask why our society is so fundamentally unhappy and how we can change that. I don't really agree with CIO but I don't think it's the be all and end all either way either. We have to look at parenting and society as a whole.

Interesting Q - my thought is when I look back I have abs no memory of a thing prior to the age of about 4, I suspect this is the same for many, at which point I'd guess most kids have learned to fall asleep and the issue is resolved and anything prior to this age would not be remembered, so I personally would be inclined to think it would not affect current mental health and that is also a broad statement, if someone was suffering from mental health issue the first question I'd ask is what is it that's making them feel affected it likely is something presently occurring, not something they have no memory of from many years ago, IMO others may disagree

@itscomplicatedlife

Interesting Q - my thought is when I look back I have abs no memory of a thing prior to the age of about 4, I suspect this is the same for many, at which point I'd guess most kids have learned to fall asleep and the issue is resolved and anything prior to this age would not be remembered, so I personally would be inclined to think it would not affect current mental health and that is also a broad statement, if someone was suffering from mental health issue the first question I'd ask is what is it that's making them feel affected it likely is something presently occurring, not something they have no memory of from many years ago, IMO others may disagree

It really doesn't work like that. The first 3-5 years is the time at which our brain is growing most rapidly and its very development will be hugely affected by our experiences especially with our caregivers. It's the hardest time to get over a trauma because we can NEVER talk about it or rationalise it and to some degree that trauma may even inhibit the growth of the part of our brain capable of this kind of higher level thinking. I'm not saying all that will happen because they're left in their bedroom to cry but to say they won't remember it is really missguided. Read about trauma and attachment theory and you'll see what I'm getting at.

@Jannt86 there may possibly be some lingering after effect, I suppose if you say a parent isn't particularly comforting and used CIO that plus the non comforting parenting style over time may embed a feeling of detachment form the parent I can see that is a definite causes, def some morning worth delving in to more. I totally agree with your post above on the subject of how kids are raised today. I have daily ongoing battles with the fact I work filll time yet I was raised by a sahm mum she was a huge huge part of my life as she was there everyday on short school days and all of half terms, because she was there I was given full reign to go out and explore, make friends, push boundaries and become the adult I am today! My daughter started full time nursery aged 1 like many do now, prior to this I just thought that was normal but doing it was a shock and it felt totally wrong! I feel my daughter has a better relationship with the nursery staff than me as she spends more days a wk there than with me hence I am going PTime as soon as I'm able to a year on and I'm done! To me it just doesn't feel right and there isn't like you say the close family anymore and neighbours aren't interested not like years ago and kids do not play out like we did prior to the last 10 or so years it's a damn shame and I worry so much about my daughters childhood, I want her to be a kid and enjoy that so so much because your a bloody long time being an adult! I felt incredibly lucky to have the childhood that I did but I also know it may not have been easy either for mum to be stuck at home all day so I think part time is the right balance unless you're lucky to have a strong support network to step in also, it's hard finding the right balance but I feel incredibly lucky to have been born in the mid 80s and been a kid through the 90s the world is a very differnt place and I'm afraid to say i have no idea what kids even do now!

What exactly is the trauma? I have two very attached children who sleep through and wake up giggling together...every minute. We allowed both to cry for 2 or 3 mins at naptime and also sometimes in the night for a few mins until they resettled. Do you think people who practice controlled crying don't need their child's needs. This is utter and absolutely nonsense with no basis in evidence. If you're so interested conduct a study looking at correlation. I'm pretty sure my mum will have probably left me at times to cry at night etc, I consider myself to be pretty resilient in coping with life's difficulties.

I am also refreshed the next day and not tired and stressed so able to tend to both children's needs during the day

There's some evidence to say that a baby's cortisol rises during periods of crying, but no evidence that this has any long term effect. Good and read the studies properly and then come back with your evidence.

What about parents who have several children to look after and sometimes have no choice but to leave their child to cry in the daytime? It's all in the night crying is it? What about the advice to new parents who have to deal with difficult times when babies are newborn. If you're stressed and baby is crying, leave in cot and walk away, take a breather etc.

Not every minute, every day 🙄🤦‍♀️ and meet their needs, not need their needs

@itscomplicatedlife. You are making a sweeping generalisation or presumption here that someone who uses controlled crying will not be comforting with their children. Sorry it's utter nonsense

@Opalfeet no I said and should have made it clearer but I said "If say someone used CIO and also wasn't generally particularly comforting then that may have an effect" what I'm saying is those two things combined may affect the child I am not saying at all that anyone that uses CIO isn't comforting to their kids, I didn't say that and didn't at all mean for my reply to intend that either

Have you thought then rather than something combined it is that the parent that doesn't tend to their child's needs that affects them. Have you fully read any studies?

Hey if you really want to do this, let's do it properly and turn it into a really goady post. What about all those awful people who put their infants/toddlers in full time nursery care at 6 months/12 months and hardly see their children in the week. Whats the impact on them? Why all the focus on something so small and trivial as controlled crying or letting your baby whinge for a few mins before they fall asleep?

@Opalfeet No I'm ok thanks, I don't want to do that and turn it in to a goady post. I just wanted to add my one comment like others have and stick to the original subject.

It already is goady whichever way you put it, full time nursery for 12 months or controlled crying (because actually I doubt hardly anyone does CIO and there's actually no studies on that I believe) it's judging parents for their choices and saying they're to blame for mental illness.