Need help- my 4 year old ds has just been excluded from school for 2nd time

[amynnixmum]

Am feeling really desperate at the moment. My ds has always been a lively busy little boy but we have never had cause for concern until very recently. Since starting school (just mornings) his behaviour has become increasing unpredictable both at home and at school. At school he has apparently become increasing prone to aggressive outbursts and a couple of weeks ago he turned over chairs and tables on 2 seperate occasions which resulted in him being excluded for 9 school days. He returned to school on tuesday this week for just an 1 1/2 to reintergrate him slowly and he had quite a good morning. On wednesday I was called at 9.15 to collect him as he had kicked off again and thrown all the tables and chairs about and was still screaming in the headmistress's office when I arrived. He has now been excluded again for a further 7 school days whilst the school try to get some more support in place. Have referred him left right and centre now to try and get help for him but am feeling really desperate and low as I am terrified of what he will do next. He has been fine with me at home but I just don't know how things are going to be when he returns to school and if this happens again I am scared they will permanently exclude him.When he is not being aggressive he is such a lovely little boy, he is really generous and has a great sense of humour but all this gets hidden by the bad behaviour.

you poor thing sounds like a very emotional time for you.

Has he ever been violent at home? or just at school like this?

I am pressuming he only started school in September? Maybe it has unsettled him too much and it has brought the behaviour out?

You are doing the right thing by getting refferals. Who have you reffered to, if you dont mind me asking.

Yes, get a referral. He may be finding school difficult due to all sorts of good reasons, including sensory issues, for example. Eg he may feel absolutely overwhelmed by noise and proximity of many children etc. I think he sounds unhappy and I expect he has his own, internal, good reasons for it. Do you need to send him to school just yet?

Did he go to a nursery or play group before he went to school, and if he did how was his behavior when he was there? Can you see any pattern in his outbursts when he is at home with you and are these the same triggers at school? Did you start the referal process before he started school or has all this just started since September? Does the school have a special needs co-ordinator and have you had a chat with him/her? I would try to do so asap if they have one and you haven't IYSWIM

I would definitely speak to the SENCO asap. Has anyone said what was happening just before the outbursts started? It might give you a clue as to what the problem is. It may be that he is feeling overwhelmed by the number of people in the classroom (teacher, children, assistants) and is lashing out. If he was supposed to be sitting on the carpet for the register (likely if you were called at 9.15) then it may be that other children invaded his personal space and again he lashed out.

Thanks for all the responses.
We hadn't referred him to anyone prior to his exclusion as it hadn't seemed necessary. He did go to playschool before school and although he had some difficulties they were managed effectively through one to one time and positive reinforement strategies. At home we have had some aggressive incidents but nothing on the scale of what has happened at school. I personally have referred him on to out local child development unit with a child psychologist (don't know who yet as still going through). School have made referrals to ed psych and an outreach program which will help the school learn new strategies and will look at classroom enviroment etc. He has also been referred on to the community paeditrician through the school nurse. As this is so recent none of these referrals have been processed so we are in that horrible waiting stage. We took him to an allergy specialist yesterday who has found him to be sensitive to refined sugars, additives and preservatives. This Dr is very well known and respected in this area so I trust the results but in all honesty we don't really eat much junk food and we don't have crisps/chocs or sweets in the house so am unsure how much of an effect these can be having. For example on the morning of the last incident he had wheatabix and shreddies (with no added sugar) for his breakfast and water to drink so I cannot see a link there but we are going to avoid these foods where possible anyway to see if there is any improvement.

What is triggering the episodes of screaming? Screaming is a fairly violent reaction in a young child and my son will start screaming and screaming when feeling threatened - that's also when he becomes aggressive (he's 5 non-verbal). As Aloha says sensory problems can play a big part in this. In fact ds1 is awful tonight- had a huge screaming fit- couldn't work out why and it did occur to me that there are a lot of bangs and crashes going on outside......

DS1 will also start screaming and attacking if he's frustrated because he can't do something. He went for his LSA today because he couldn't do a puzzle properly.

Hi Coppertop,
Have spoken to SENCO. In fact approached the school when ds started as was concerned that he would find it difficult to settle. Decided to give it to 1/2 term before involving any other agencies as we felt that ds was doing ok - although not doing well. By end sept it was obvious that we were going to need extra help and asked for appointment with SENCO to discuss possibilites. Class teacher suggested that we see her on parents evening and so we made an appointment for then. Unfortunately the incident that resulted in his first exclusion occurred 2 days prior to this appointment. SENCO very nice and supportive but as yet feel that part of the reason that my ds is being excluded is that school are not equipped to cope with this sort of problem. Feel a bit let down as my mum is a SENCO in another school where I feel certain they would have acted earlier and more confidently and have avoided an exclusion for such a young child.

As yet neither my dh and I or the school can find either a pattern or a trigger for the aggressive outbursts. Have kept charts at home and at school to see if there was a pattern but can't see one. On tuesday the teacher did all she could - she didn't push him to join in when he was resisting but simply carried on with the register with the other children but ds then started turning over chairs so the other children had to be taken to another classroom for their safety and ds wrecked room - I saw it -it looked like a bomb had hit it- all the tables and chairs were turned over and chucked in the middle of the room. It was all very upsetting and it took me 10-15 mins to calm him down enough to get him to walk out of the headmistresses office and walk to the car. Up until tuesday he has always said that he likes school but since then he says he doesnt.

My 4 and a half year old son is a pretty well adjusted chap, most of the time. At nursey, playgroup and now at school he is good, possibly a little meek but pretty well liked. He's doing half days at the moment and comes home tired. He still sleeps in the afternoon four days out of seven. He is very active - a little action man. When he's tired he gets extemely over emotional. He torments his 2 year old brother and normally ends in calling anyone in the vacinity stupid idiot. He gets himself in a right old state and it's difficult to calm him down. I've tried ignoring these outbursts, timing out, occaionally small smacks and am currently trying a 'good boy' chart. Reasoning seems a waste of time. How can I stop him from calling my parents, people in the street and me and hubby stupid idiots. I'm sure it's just a phase but it does cause friction and embarrassement. He has a pretty good diet and very patient parents.

Hi Sallydog
Up until he started school felt like you did - that it was not behaviour that we wanted to encourage but that not actually a big problem. Obviously now we have to be really concerned as things are really out of control. Like you we try to be reasonable and consistent and we also have an incentive chart but at the moment nothing we do seems to work.

Hi Jellyhead,
DS was 4 in july so is very young but now that he has started school I am concerned that pulling him out for a few months may cause as many problems as it solves. I appreciate that the school currently does not have suffcient strategies and support to contian his behaviour in the classroom. I was angry about this to start with as their lack of skills/support etc resulted in ds exclusion but now i feel that i just have to work with what they are trying to accomplish for the future so that we can work as a team to help him.

Do you think there might be a medical reason underlying his outbursts, amynnixmum? I don't want to scare you silly, I'm the one probably being silly. But it struck a nerve because you made it sound like a sudden behavior change, reminded me of the movie Lorenzo's Oil. Anyway, might be worth asking GP if there could be a physical cause.

I would keep him out for a while. He has the next 20 years for full time education so a few months wont make a difference. HE does sound too young.

I am not concerned about taking him out from an educational point of view - I agree that he has loads of time to catch up. It's more that I am concerned that there is something else going on for him that he is unable to articulate or understand and so we cannot help him with. I have never previously considered that he may have an underlying condition such as ADHD as his behviour didn't seem like such a problem before but I am now realising that there are certain similarities. Another problem with taking him out of school is what do I do in the mean time? It isn't fair to keep him at home and really he needs and enjoys the company of other children but if I put him back in playschool I am concerned that that will send him the message that if he plays up at school in the future he will be allowed to go back to playschool (which he loves).

I would think that it is far more likely that the cause is the stress of starting school. It sounds as if you were a little worried about what might happen before he started. Are his outbursts caused by similar things to the difficulties in nursery?

What have the school actually done for him so far? (Apart from excluding him twice ) Is he on School Action or School Action Plus at all?

Tbh unless your ds really wanted to go to school I'd be tempted to back off a little from it. My ds1 is 4yrs old (another summer baby) and is only just about to start full-time after building up his hours gradually. He loves school and the routine is really good for him so for us it's worth him being there. If this wasn't the case I would seriously consider letting him start much later.

Do you have any idea how long you'll have to wait for these appointments? If it's not too long I'd be tempted to keep ds off school until then.

I also had some worries about my ds setling into school. He loved nursery but could be 'difficult' if they wanted him to do an activity, as oppsed to a free choice activity. He has now started reception. His teacher (who knew him at nursery) has played it very softly, softly (while still being firm IYSWIM) and has integrated him into school activities very well. They did it by not forcing him to take part in all activies but just letting him get used to things. For example they 'sing' the regester, but ds would only say good morning. It wasn't pressed they have just let him get used to the idea and now, he has started to 'sing' with the rest. Can the school ease off him a bit if they are expecting too much?

Hi amynnixmum, how flexible is school prepared to be? Is it possible for your ds to do just mornings at school for instance, and see if that eases the stress for him, and gives him chance to learn what is expected at school, but still chill out at home as well?

Huge hugs and sympathy to you by the way. We had some struggles at school with ds1, so I know some of what you're going through. I couldn't sleep at night for worrying, and sometimes I just cried all day, and sat waiting and wondering, and worrying every time the phone rang that it would be the Head calling "for a chat".

Have you got a meeting planned at school next week before he goes back to find out what strategies are being put in place?

It's good the school are looking at the classroom environment- simple things like giving him a carpet tile to sit on at registration etc may really help (sounds mad but its a fairly standard technique that can work wonders).

The referrals sound a good idea. Stupid one- but has his hearing and vision been checked recently- always worth ruling out when problems suddenly start in group environments.

Thanks again for all the responses.
The class teacher and senco have been great - the head less so!!! - the class teacher and i have had daily handovers regarding his behaviour plus we do smily face charts for both school and home. School has been forced to rethink what it has in place for ds age group and has obviously found itself unable to cope - they are in the process of putting extra strategies and support in place but unfortunately (as all these things take a ludicrous amount of time!!) there was nothing new actually in place when my ds went back on tuesday so that when the bad behaviour was repeated they were no more able to cope than previously. They are going to do work with him on emotional literacy, social skills etc but as yet he hasn't remained in school long enough to receive any of this and as i said before, we are still waiting on the other agencies that he has been referred to to get involved and do their assessments etc.

Just as another thoughtn you mentioned that your moter is a senco, what does she think might be going on and does she agree with the things that the school have suggested?

how stressful for you, amynnixmum. You seem very clued up on all the ways to help your son settle in so I hope things improve.

I just wanted to say my youngest ds (year 1) is in the same class as a boy with behaviour problems. I was chatting to his mother yesterday and she said she is trying to get him statemented so he has extra help at school. The little boy is prone to big outbursts, can be aggressive, and is not too good at separating fact from fiction or understanding emotions. His mother picked up on his aggression when he was a toddler. She took him to an allergy specialist and he now is avoids certain foods.

His mother works closely with the teacher, so, for instance, her ds has a special place to sit in the classroom and a special reward chart. Her son is at the school full time, he has friends, he seems happy and very integrated with school life. I can see his mother has put lots of effort into this, and problems are still there, but things seem to be working out so far.