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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Trolley Tantrums

54 replies

SueDonim · 08/10/2002 09:20

What does everyone think of this item about dealing with your child's behaviour in supermarkets? Is it likley to be helpful to you when your dd/ds is stropping or is it patronising and paternalistic to issue such guidelines?

\linknews.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/10/08/nanny08.xml{}Trolley tantrums\

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Demented · 09/10/2002 12:29

I am with Scatterbrain and Soupdragon here and I can honestly say, hand on my heart, that I have never even opened a pack of something for DS1 to eat and then paid for it later. I have just always felt that if you do that once then they think it is OK and I get enough hassle from him at home (he is a bottomless pit) wanting to eat this, that and the next thing. When he was younger I would take a lidded beaker of juice and something from home (or purchased on the way to the supermarket) for him to eat. Now he doesn't need juice or a snack and views it as a real treat if there is some cheese or something being handed out to try.

jodee · 09/10/2002 12:33

Bumblelion, I've heard that one too - just the sort of thing I would keep saying to myself, to keep me sane going round Tescos!

I'm forever opening a packet of bread rolls or pancakes for me or ds while going around the aisles - I don't see why I should have to bring a supply of food when I am going to out to buy some! But I wouldn't dream of putting an empty packet back on the shelves, my conscience wouldn't let me!

SoupDragon · 09/10/2002 12:41

My limit is 1 bread roll from a pack of four. And generally I wouldn't have purchased the rolls anyway so in a way they're making a profit from me I have also purchased an unwanted bottle of Evian when DS2 has managed to drink all his pre-prepared drink before we've finished. I too would never dream of putting back a pack I'd opened, I always pay for them.

On a number of occasions, the checkout operator has helpfully pointed out that there is a roll missing from my 4 pack

Demented · 09/10/2002 12:43

I don't seem to be able to get my words to come out right today. I'm not against people opening a packet that they are going to pay for, it is just something I have decided not to do myself. I'm afraid mind you that I don't agree with feeding a child stuff that you don't pay for.

SoupDragon · 09/10/2002 12:53

Demented, I agree with you entirely. At the moment, my personal feelings are that, since I intend to pay for the rolls, there is not a problem.

My reasoning is that, at the moment, DS2 is at an age where he does not notice things like that. With DS1 I have a strict "we've not paid for it, you can't have it" rule. DS1 does not, incidentally, come to the supermarket with DS2 so there's no problem with contradicting rules

Once DS2 starts being more aware and understands things more, the same rule will apply to him. And by that time, he'll be in nursery and won't be coming shopping with me anyway

Katherine · 09/10/2002 13:37

Oh you are all making me feel really guilty now. I'd never put something back on the shelves. Yes Ok letting them eat grapes is (oh I cringe at the word it seems to strong) theft but for all the profit they make from me I'm sure a few grapes is a drop in the ocean and it means their other customers have a pleasanter shop so maybe spend more ( )

Incidently we did used to do it with the multi-packs of raisins you can get for kids snacks, we'd open the pack, give them a box and of course pay at the end. But they'd stopped doing these now (in my shop at least) or hidden them somewhere and fruit is the first thing we get to. I do feel guilty but at leat I pay for the ones which are left.

Scatterbrain · 09/10/2002 14:08

Didn't mean to make you feel guilty Katherine, but imagine if everyone let their kids eat food which they weren't paying for - the prices would soon go up.

As SoupDragon said - if it was grapes from a pre-measured pack - that would be entirely different, same effect on children, but you have paid for the grapes so would have a clear conscience !

Up to you of course - but IMO it's a slippery old slope and not a very good lesson to teach the children.

We used to go fruit-picking and I wasn't allowed to eat any fruit - not even one strawberry until we had weighed and paid - my Dad said that they would weigh me in and weigh me out and charge him double for the strawberries I'd eaten on the field ! That's how I come to be so anti-theft in any form - a good lesson from Dad there !

eemie · 09/10/2002 15:18

It's almost a relief that this thread has got so far off the point since the first half of it makes depressing reading. Even the Telegraph with its negative bias managed to report that the initiative is based on research which suggests shouting at children can be as harmful as hitting them. Isn't that point worth making?

What is the relevance of Ms Hughes' marital or family status? Is anyone suggesting that childless people are not entitled to have a view about child abuse? PamT, was the speculation about whether she's a 'spinster' meant to come across as a sneer? If not, what was it? And how can single Mums leave the kids at home with Daddy when they go shopping?

The report also says that the leaflet is written not by the government, but by an independent charity. There's even a link to their website, did anyone look at that?

Not long ago there was a hotly-debated thread here about seeing parents ignoring/shouting at/hitting their children in public. A lot of people showed compassion and understanding of how others might feel, as well as expressing acute distress about being in similar situations themselves and sensitivity about judging others unfairly. Or was that some other Mumsnet?

Original poster

SueDonim · 09/10/2002 15:24

I'm with Scatterbrain on this. I never gave my children food at the supermarket anyway, (can't stand the mess) much less something I hadn't paid for. My DH insists on eating a single grape when we buy them and it drives me mad. It's technically theft and you can be prosecuted, not that I've ever heard of a case. The profits argument is pretty weak - you could apply that to all sorts of things.

OP posts:

Katherine · 09/10/2002 16:13

OK I feel totally ashamed. I shall try to find something pre-packed in future. Actually we don't do it very often anyway. They are usually very well bahaved with me. Its just when DH is there...

SoupDragon · 09/10/2002 16:32

Oh, when DH is there, I'm tempted to give him something to eat to keep him quiet, prepacked or not!!

oxocube · 09/10/2002 17:31

SueDonim, I think its fine to 'test the goods' as it were! What if those grapes were horrid? Agree, though, that letting kids munch their way through half a pound of them is not a very good example! Actually, I often give my one year old something to eat in the supermarket, usually bread or croissant or something: yes it is messy, but such a good distraction!

tigermoth · 09/10/2002 18:13

The main reason I do not let my ds eat something from the supermarket before we pay for it is that I'm so afraid he'd get carried away and throw up over my shopping. Very costly then!

If pushed, I will offer him something from a prepackaged pack. He's partial to opening cereal boxes and wolfing down handfulls of crunchies while fishing around for the free toy. As long as we pay for the pack, I can't see the harm in it. But I wouldn't make a habit of it - I don't want my toddler to think he can do the same in all shops we go into. I wouldn't allow my oldest son to help himself though. At 8 years old he knows how to behave in a supermarket. If he doesn't do as he should it's more a matter of negotiation/punishment, not distraction.

Going back to the original topic, I too agree that the 50,000 pounds could have been far better spent.

tigermoth · 09/10/2002 18:22

BTW custardo enjoyed reading your rant, and thought it made lots of sense.

On a lighter note, did you throw very vocal wobblies as a toddler?

Tinker · 09/10/2002 18:53

Ooops, me and my daughter always eat a small French stick when we go round Sainsbury's. She knows this is alright because she knows we have to pay for it (and, yes, it is extra profit for them because I wouldn't be buying it other wise). It's never been a problem, the check-out staff usually just point out that I've got a broken French stick!

Tortington · 09/10/2002 18:54

ermmmm.... i dont know tigermoth! my mum always said i was a perfect child! something went very wrong obviously must be the endless years of marriage and bloody kids ( just the three not endless kids) but i did feel a lot better. no suedonim i am not going to forward my post to them - maybe the mumsnetter controlers can ask them to come and have a look at what we have said?
and BTW i think the stealing not stealing issue could be another thread on its own as these are two seperate issues but i used to work at asda before bar ccodes were invented! and the policy was , as long as they paid for it they could eat the whole trolly! which i think is fair , and sometimes i do open a drink on the way round if i feel like it, or eat a grape or two, but if we take this further i think supermarkets make plenty profits to cover it and in theory these big supermarkets are supposed to compete with each other in this supposed market economy arnt they? we know they dont really, infact hubbie suggested there is a conspiricy theory where all the top people gather in a room and devise strategies together.....sounds good to me. further still, we shouldnt really shop there at all as we are putting smaller businesses out of business and then complain that there are no corner shops , when we give all our money to million pound corporations!

anais · 09/10/2002 21:14

I cannot see any problem with eating food you are going to pay for. I also don't think it matters that much eating a few grapes on the way round.

Rhubarb · 09/10/2002 21:27

I often give my dd the top off a french loaf to keep her quiet whilst I do the shopping. Once at the checkout the cashier looked at it and informed me it was damaged and would I like another one? But I was too honest and owned up to my dd snacking on it. I never thought it could be a problem before.

It's the age old question of why do mothers take their kids to the supermarkets to smack them? They don't of course, kids take their mothers to the supermarkets to publicly humiliate them.

And Custardo for PM!!!

Demented · 09/10/2002 21:58

Custardo, I don't think DS could manage a whole trolley, wheels and all.

WideWebWitch · 09/10/2002 22:44

Cor this has moved on a bit since last night! I think it's fine to eat something pre-packaged on the way round that you have every intention of paying for. Actually, although ds now knows how to behave (more or less) in supermarkets, whatever it takes to get round in one piece I reckon. So I don't think it's the end of the world if someone eats the odd grape in a supermarket.

Read a big report on retailers a while back and this is a subject that interests me - custardo, imo, your DH is pretty much right! They do exercise a near monopoly and we should, in an ideal world, be buying from small local producers/grocers. Ho hum. The profits the retailers make at the expense of suppliers and consumers is unbelievable. Not saying that justifies anything but actually, if they want parents to shop without tantrums; supply a creche, do home delivery EVERYWHERE (they don't in my area), move tempting displays away from checkouts, help with packing if you have kids with you, in fact, agree to pack it and bring it to your car with a till swipe machine, get rid of queues, pay their staff proper wages so they're better motivated and happier, etc etc etc. But don't put patronising leaflets in store because I for one, do not want to know!

About a year ago my ds threw a wobbly as I got to the checkout (with a huge trolley) and screamed at me that he wanted a creme egg as they were in a big bin right at the till. I said no as his behaviour was awful and I wasn't giving in to a tantrum. He grabbed one, started to try to open it (not very successfully) so I took it from him and put it back. The supercilious cow of an operator said "he's damaged that, I assume you'll want to pay for it?" so, like an idiot, I did. I then asked her to throw it in her bin for me as no way was ds getting it at this point. I look back and think NO! WHY DID YOU HAVE THAT BIN THERE AT TODDLER HEIGHT? If you want me to pay for this £200 worth of shopping you can bloody well let a creme egg go by and give me some help packing or some sympathy YOU COW!!!! It was an ugly day...

WideWebWitch · 09/10/2002 22:45

But I was too cowed and ashamed....

Tortington · 09/10/2002 22:47

lmao demented!
wanted to go back to eemie's point tho... not a sneer in sight when i say, this women should not be allowed to influence government or policy without experience of what she is supposed to be reporting on! that is not to say she shouldnt have an opinion , how could we take those away? but surley there are better qualified proffessionalls to call upon. ( notice i doubled all the ff's, ss's, and ll's just to make sure!)

Tortington · 09/10/2002 22:49

lmao WWW, eggsactly! ( pardon the pun)

Demented · 10/10/2002 07:42

Custardo, excuse my ignorance but what does Imao mean? I haven't seen that one before.

sis · 10/10/2002 10:02

Emmie - I agree with the points you make, although I did not look at the chatity's website either.

On the issue of the guidance that has been published, it may not be relevant or helpful to fellow mumsnetters but it may be of use to others out there so I don't think I would critise spending money on the govt. funding this sort of publication. If we are talking about wasting public funds then I'd start with David Blunkett's salary anyone who thinks it is okay to have tests and exams for children under secondary school age does not deserve payment from my taxes!

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