Why do newborns need to lie flat? And how flat is flat and how old is newborn?!

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Dd2 is colicky and only settles in her swing. it reclines but doesn't lie flat and i read somewhere she shouldn't spend more than 30 mins in there. As it's just about the only place she'll sleep during the day I'd like to leave her longer (she wakes if i try to move her).
I am also wondering if i need to buy a carry cot for a buggy we've been given (a bebe confort) as the seats on the buggy (a twin) go pretty flat, the carrycot is £150 new and dd2 is already 3 months so we'd only need to use it for another three months.
I don't feel able to make decisions on these things as i'm not sure why she needs to lie flat. is it to do with her breathing or her spine position or something else? how dangerous is it to leave her in her swing (today she slept for three hours after waking ever hour overnight and not napping during day at all) or to use the buggy without a carrycot?
Anyone have any info?!

I believe it's to do with the developing spine. Where ever possible, and certainly at night time, babies should lie flat, without a pillow, until they're a year old.

Of course, if they flake out in a car seat, etc., there's no point in disturbing them.

thanks desiderata, that's what i always thought but read today that it's to do with how babies breathe - ie 'tummy breathe' to it's bad to scrunch up or constrict the stomach area.

the swing - a graco one - doesn't mention the need for a time limit.

A lot of buggies that don't lie completely flat are sold as suitable from 3 months.

Yes, most baby appliances don't lie completely flat, but it's fine for a couple of hours sleep in the middle of the day.

But the cot should not have a pillow until one year.

Hi Enormous, I posted similar question the other day as DD (5mo) will only sleep in sling or car seat in day and on my lap till (my) bedtime - then she's flat for the night except that she often turns onto her side. So, no answers but I share your dilemma - bottom line is don't have much choice as that's the only way she'll sleep at the mo - just hope not creating problems!

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, noviceknitter, it's not knowing what the damage might be and how big the risk is that's frustrating. i can't seem to find any info on it and there doesn't seem to be a standard for manufacturers of buggies, swings, car seats etc to follow.
if i find anything out, i'll let you know!
it was so easy with dd1 but dd2 is a different kettle of fish altogether!

Ds rarely slept entirely flat from about 10 weeks, as at that point he was diagnosed with silent reflux, which explained all the screaming and no sleeping . We were advised by the gastroenterologist to prop him up to sleep. Obviously this was for medical reasons, so I'm not suggesting you do the same thing, but thought I'd post it so you don't worry excessively - ds is now 16 months and shows no ill effects so far.

ah, thank you ladymixalot, that's very interesting.
odd isn't it that there isn't more info out there on this?!

could you try propping the cot up at one end? That way your dd would not horizontal, but her abdomen wouldn't be scrunched either. That was what I was advised to do when dd had croup (in the hospital they have cots that tilt).

babies must lie flat and not spend prolonged periods scrunched up in car chairs etc as it hinders spine and organ development.
Travel systems are a bit pants as they do not tell you this on the labels/destructions and sell on the point you can go out shopping, clip the carseat from the car onto the buggy etc.
Before you know it the baby has been in that position for 3 hours or more.

I know this does not answer your question, but we had a very colicy baby boy and colief was the best thing I ever found (from boots) - it may help to resolve your other problem. Of course each child is different, but worth a try.

Re the sleeping flat, so long as they lay flat at night i think you are ok (it is due to spine and to help breathing), at the end of the day it is better that they get sleep than not wherever they lie, and, they can also play in the day laying flat your LO will get that quality time on their back. It sounds like you are doing fine.

I think being a new mother is full of questions and neurosis - just trust your instincts they are usually right.
Best of luck

any tips for what do you do ig your baby won't cooperate with these guidelines?

They never do - shame they dont come with a manual as well!

Just found this on tinternet.
Though, might I add it sounds a bit nuts to me! Not nuts exactly, but maybe a bit OTT.

"Oxygen desaturation is when the blood oxygen levels fall possibly to the extent that not enough oxygen reaches the vital organs, particularly the brain. There have been many reports into the effects of oxygen desaturation - some experts believe that it can have an effect on babies learning and physical development in later life whilst others believe it can cause bradycardia (slowing of the heart) and apnoea (temporary suspension of breathing), both of which are linked with cot death.

The 'wedge shape' of most infant carriers is considered the main cause of this problem. Because babies 'tummy breathe' rather than shallow breathe like adults, squashing them into an unnatural position restricts their breathing and possibly also their digestion."

DS1 spent a lot of time in scrunched position, before I knew about lying flat as much as poss and suffered sever colic.
I kept DS2 as flat as poss and he never had colic whatsoever.
I don't drive, only DH does, so in the day, I was pushing DS1 around in a travel system thingy as he slept better and I could see him that way.
For DS2 we bought a traditional pram and he slept very well in there, swaddled up.

xmummy, i decided in the end today that some sleep even in swing was better for her than no sleep (which would also harm development, surely?)which is why dd2 ended up back in the swing. she slept soundly for three hours, despire dd1's best efforts to wake her.
lady of the flowers, that's what i read on 'tummy breathing' too.
i really am conflicted. in some cultures babies are carried in arms or sling all day so not flat at all. car seats aren't flat - but being in an upright car seat is better than no car seat. and as for the hours dd2 has snoozed in various positions on my shoulder/lap etc over the last 12 weeks...well...has that been harmful?
i do have a sneaking feeling that we'd be advised to keep babies flat a bit more stridently than we are at the moment if it was very dangerous.
thanks for all replies. i guess i'll continue doing my best and hope she grows to love flat places for sleeping as much as she currently likes her swing!
if only the babies would read the manuals.

My buggy (Mothercare citilite) was sold as from birth but doesn't go completely flat. DS has spent loads of time in there and in his bounch chair (sloping) with no visible ill effects.

I can see the logic with car seats as they get scrunched, but not with gentle slopes.

DS2 mostly slept in a bouncy chair or on a slight slant from birth... er, he's well over 3yo now and I can't see it did him any harm. All of my babies disliked sleeping flat except in the deepest sleep, or lying flat awake.

Would be different if he were premie, bouncy seat scrunches them much less than a carseat, too.

newborn that won't lie flat sounds like reflux. my DS has it and cannot get of to sleep if down flat. I prop him up until he is asleep and then put him down but not entirely flat as have raised the end of his cot. this works for him.

if its the loola you've got then the seat unit is suitable from birth and you don't need a carrycot.

it's a bebe confort twin club which is meant to be suitable from six months from what i can gather (ie mumsnet search!). i don't have handbook as it was v kindly given to us. bebe c website is terrible for info but i did ask tge irish online shop which sells them and they said six months too. tho looking at seats i can't think why as they v flat and appear to me to be same as loola.

ask them what the flattest angle of recline is. it should be 170 (ideally 180) until 6 months.