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school action plus.

24 replies

colditz · 17/11/2007 22:44

Ds1 is on School Action Plus for dire attention span, an inability to concentrate on the task in hand if it bores him remotely, and a moderate speech delay.

I already play games, read books, have lots and lots and lots of conversation, but he still cannot or will not look at me when I am trying to talk to him - his eyes dart around, his legs start jiggling up and down ets.

He has a speech delay, and can't make the L sound because he struggles to keep his tongue still while he is trying. It rolls back and sideways in his mouth, back into a Y sound - I have exercises from the SALT which he can only do when tired.

He volcanoes out of school, runs the 25 minute walk home, and crashes for 11 hours a night. He has NO table manners, makes more mess than his 18 month old brother and is actually less adept at using cutlery. He is learning to read using jolly phonics, getting along nicely. He can count to about 100 with some prompting.

Why is his behavior so strange sometimes? Why does he still out like a sore thumb from the other children? Why does he compulsively wander off, take things to pieces, roll on the floor, hang off my arm? Why does he not learn from discipline, talking, persuasion, gentle argument, confiscation, naughty step?

He is actually quite clever but he will fall behind so bloody quickly once he gets beyond my ability to teach him, because he just does not listen to anyone! I would have been shamed to be told off by my teacher - he is in time out almost daily. he has only cared once - when he thought it was because he went to the toilet but was in fact because he wandered off to a different part of the building without telling anyone he was going.

Why is he so hard to get through to about appropriate behavior? He still walks up to complete strangers in the street and cuddles them, he has NO natural caution. He is scared of NOTHING.

Please explain to me why this is normal and if it isn't normal, what is causing it and how I can fix it? He is 4.6.

OP posts:
colditz · 17/11/2007 22:54

..,.,.,.

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controlfreaky2 · 17/11/2007 23:01

has he had any assessment by child psychologist? educational psychologist may help re learning strategies etc.....(referral through school?) or clinical psychologist may help with overview / discipline issues etc. just a thought..... what do school think should happen? what do you want to happen?

controlfreaky2 · 17/11/2007 23:02

sorry. meant to say clinical psych referral through gp / hv? to local child and adolescent mental health team (CAMHS)

colditz · 17/11/2007 23:04

Yes, he was assessed earlier this year, and the ed psych said she couldn't see anything wrong with him bar his speech ... fair enough. So why is his behavior so bad?

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wrinklytum · 17/11/2007 23:09

Could you get him reassessed,Colditz,if you are worried?Would your gp refer him to a paed?I think our local CDC still sees children that are 5 or under.Not sure how it works nationally,though.Do you have concerns that it may be that he has an as yet undiagnosed health condition with regard to behaviour?

wrinklytum · 17/11/2007 23:11

fwiw my nephew has recently been assessed as having a mild ASD that was not picked up on until he was school age (he is 4 and 8 months)Assessed by paed.

colditz · 17/11/2007 23:16

Had he been seen by anyone previously, wrinklytum?

I hate to go over the ed psych, I like her, she tells me what I want to hear.

It all seems linked in with his inability to keep still - hinting at adhd - but he sleeps. He sleeps well, consistantly and fairly early in the evening too.

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Heated · 17/11/2007 23:18

Have you spoken to HV as they can get assessments?

Also re the hyper behaviour, have you investigated food intolerance? A boy I teach has an additive-free diet which makes a big difference to his hyperactivity & concentration. His parents have also removed tv from his bedroom (I know this is unlikely to relate to your ds) and limited xbox use to a few hours at the wkend since he was too stimulated and would only sleep about 5hrs a night.

wrinklytum · 17/11/2007 23:20

No,it was just a culmination of certain behaviours that alerted his mum.I am not saying that your ds has this problem,but if you ARE concerned I would see if your son can be referred.I have found that the child development team I have seen for dd have been fantastic(her problems are somewhat different) but even if it is nothing (and I hope it is) at least it will set your mind at rest if you can see a developmental paed xx

colditz · 17/11/2007 23:26

I gave him an additive free diet for 6 months when he was 3 - it made no difference at all.

I'm terrified I have screwed him up by having his bropther. I can't help feeling I'd have dealt with him better if I hadn't had a baby when he was just three - which is when his behavior stopped improving. In many ways he still behaves like a 3 year old now.

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colditz · 17/11/2007 23:27

Could I do it by contacting his doctor, do you think?

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colditz · 17/11/2007 23:30

I just want to know. I don't want him on Ritalin, I don't want DLA, it's not imperative that I know whether or not I caused this or if it is inate, but if I did cause this, I need to know, so I can set it right. And I need to know how to set it right too. If I didn't, I need to deal with him a little differently, and that's fine, but I need to know.

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wrinklytum · 17/11/2007 23:31

Colitz,of course you haven't screwed it up by having another baby!!!It is hard with 2 trying to divide the love.Hugs xxx

If you go to GP tell them your concerns.If it helps write it down.Push for a referral.You are his mum,and know him best.Good luck.It may just be he is exerting his 4 year old independence,but if you FEEL things are not right you are the best judgexxx.

stripeymama · 17/11/2007 23:31

Has anyone suggested PDA?

Sounds a lot like my DB (8). Very bright but unable to behave appropriately or to understand that rules apply to him, and almost entirely unbothered by any form of disciplins - it just seems to wash over him.

HTH?

colditz · 17/11/2007 23:56

That is interesting reading, but actually doesn't sound at all like him .... he doesn't do fantasy play very well. He will do a 'cutesy' voice for a fluffy toy for a few seconds, if I engage him in it (as I have been told to) then will ask for his lego, k'nex or puzzles. You cannot carry him off on a flight of imagination, he will bring you back down to Earth with a firm bump, although he will make rockets and wheely houses and windmills with his construction toys.

I dont think his eye contact is normal, tbh. I always expected that a child who is given a lot of eye contact will use a lot of eye contact, but this isn't the case. He will often try to so what is asked of him, to the point of sitting on his hands to stop himself touching the speech therapist precious bloody book, but opften doesn't manage, or gives up, or gets distracted.

He can focus, by the way, when it is something he wants to do, and I do wonder if he is not swinging the lead a little to avoid things like sitting nicely at the table (he seems to sit nicely at the computer!) but without knowing that he can help it, I'm reluctant to punish him.

Not that he cares very much.

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moondog · 18/11/2007 00:00

I see a lot of children like this (am a sn salt,not the type that does silly pronunciation exercises like the ones you are doing. Frankly,the mising of 'l' and 'y' sounds like the least of his worries. If this is all he is doing with the salt it is a waste of time and effort tbh.)

What might be very useful is to structure his day very very carefully and make 'rewards' and 'punishments' crystal clear.

I don't want to confuse you but am doing an MSc in Applied Beahaviour Analysis which can be incredibly helpful in situations like this.I recomend you start by reading (the very readable ) 'Don't shoot the dog' by Karen Pryor. Costs about £5.

If you do read it,get back in touch and I can discuss it further with you.

colditz · 18/11/2007 00:13

Ok. Thank you, I will track that book down.

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twocutedarlings · 18/11/2007 18:34

Hi Colditz,

Im sorry that your going through this, all i can say is go with your gut instinct, if you really feel that something is not right and you need to know what, then you must follow it through. Dont worry about going against what the Ed pysc said to you. In my experiance they only spend a very limited amount of time with each child and do a very limited assessment.

What you have writen about you DS, could have been writen about my DD 5.2, every thing that you wrote except about your DSs speech delay is her to a T.

DD has been on School action plus since just starting pre school, Over the last 2 years she was asssessed by various developmental peads, and was eventially assessed over the summer at a child development clinic. The outcome of this assessment was that my DD has Asperger syndrome. Coming to terms with her diagnoises has been really tuff but nowhere near as bad as the not knowing IYKWIM.

Personally i was you i would have a read up about AS on the net and take from there.

I really hope that this helps !! and if can help any further just shout .

maggiems · 19/11/2007 11:58

Nothing much to add on top of what others have said but just wanted to say sorry that you are worried ,especially after your lovely post of 2 weeks ago where you sounded upbeat about your Ds'progress after a parents evening. He sounds like he has a lot going for him despite your worries. My Dt2 has a very poor attention span also so can sympathise with your worries to some extent

Peachy · 19/11/2007 12:04

Personally i would get a GP referral- ed psych didnt pick up either of my boys.

The diet- as wella s the additive free diet, soem kids respond to a diet called the salycylate free diet which is very, very different (you take out everything MN approves of- raisins, citrus, tomatoes.....). It worked well for ds1, I shall see if i can get you a link. We did it with a BIBIC nutritionist but its doable alone, and only needs a few weeks to see if it works.

Peachy · 19/11/2007 12:10

[http://www.safekids.co.uk/AllergiesSalicylatesChildren.html link]]

heidim · 19/11/2007 12:26

Hi Colditz, sounds like you're having a pretty tough time of it . Boys can be difficult at the best of times. There has been lots of good advice given by other mumsnetters on this thread. Your son could be showing triats or tendancies of both ADHD & Asperger's but may not get a diagnosis of either unless he ticks all the requsite boxes! Another idea is trying your son on Eye q tablets, (made by Equazen) developed in association with Dr Madeline Portwood, with great results. It's only a food supplement so can't do any harm but may be worth giving it a go. hope this helps!

sarah573 · 19/11/2007 19:41

Hi, he does sound very much like my DS (9) who has aspergers - BUT he is only 4, and most of what you describe is completely normal for a 4 year old either on the spectrum or not.

How is he with the other children at school? Does he have friends? Most AS kids by 4 are having huge problems making/maintaining friendships.

Also does he obsess over weird things? Im not talking watching his Thomas DVD 5 times aday - they all do that ;) - but odd things that really stress him when you try to get him to stop!! At 4 DS was learning train timetables and could not pass a street lamp without saying 'on' or 'off'!!!

I would ask for the pshy to see him again. Its certainally better to find out earlier rather than later if there is a problem. DS was seen whilst he was in reception by the ed pshy who said he was fine and needed a sticker chart to encourage good behaviour!! There were obviously no street lamps around at the time!! He was 8 before we actually found out what was wrong, and who knows how different things would have been for him had it been picked up when he was 4!

minouminou · 20/11/2007 00:52

re adhd - you'd be surprised how many people with it (of all ages) sleep like logs
the condition is caused by an UNDERactive part of the brain, and it's kind of.....once your switch is off, you're really OFF!
first hand experience here!

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