So being grounded,having no PS2, no television after school hasn't worked,

[saltire]

What can I do now.
They ran riot in Morrisons yesterday, DS1 called his brother a Wan**r, told me I was horrible for shouting at him, was selfish for grounding him and was imitating what I was saying in a cheeky way.
However the punishments haven't worked, they ahve come home from school, DS1 is screeching at the top of his voice at DS2, who is in turn winding DS1 up till he's crying. DS1 has shut the door in DS2s face, causing it to swell up. i could go on but I'd be here till 5pm.

How old are they?

Shout very loudly - usually works for me. Again say no TV and PLaystation. If no improvement in behaviour tonight same will happen tomorrow.

Early tea/dinner and bedtime.

9 and 7. I could cry , i really could. it is constant. Ds1 also seems to have the most atrocious temper at the minute and his language is really bad as well, which he dei=finately doesn't get from us

9 is old enough to know better. He prob gets the language from school.

Is something bothering him that could be causing the temper outbursts?

Can you spend some time with each of them on their own?

What are they doing if they are not watching TV or on the PS2? Is boredom contributing to the problem?

Is it partly caused by the recent move saltire? (IIRC you moved to England quite recently?).Kids often hit out at the ones closest to them as they feel it's a safe environment in which to get their frustrations out.

Miaou, I think that's part of the problem. I really hate it down here, and so do the DSes. DS2 told his teacher that he misses all his friends,a dn that there is nothing to do like there was at the old house. Ds1's behaviour and language and attitude have increased since we moved as well. Again he misses his friends

Also, I posted the other day, DS1 wakens really early - 4.45 this morning again. We have tried later bed times but to no avail.

I actually walked out of Woolies on Saturday and left them bickering in the shop .

Also meant to add, DS2 is sitting at the kitchen table colouring and DS1 is in the living room with his subbueteo

oh poor you saltire ((((((((hugs))))))))

OK - now for the tough talk. You need to get positive about being there. IIRC your dh is posted down there isn't he? So you are stuck there for some time. So you've got to make the best of it. If the dses are picking up on the fact that you are not happy (and I guess that however hard you try to hide it, they probably will), then they will take that as their cue to be unhappy too. You have to hide it and be positive about being there (I know, I'm asking the impossible ... ).

Positive steps - is there really nothing to do? Can you get them involved in some out of school stuff? Cubs/Scouts, swimming clubs, footy clubs, theatre groups ... go to the local library and find out what is happening locally. Then sit down with them and get them to choose at least one activity to do after school/at the weekend. It could really help with their confidence.

They are bound to feel uprooted and to be lacking in confidence atm - after all, they were happy where they were. But just because they were happy there, it doesn't mean they can't be happy where they are now - just that things will be different. It's really worth sitting down and pointing this out to them.

I will think and post more later - in the meantime, don't be too hard on yourself - it's a big period of adjustment

OK just to add - praise every little thing that they do well/right - even putting their socks to wash or being nice to each other (even a small passing comment) - bolster their self esteem. It really works and often leads on to more positive behaviour.

sounds like your ds1 is furious at his family right now. It's essential you talk to him on his own and let him express himself with your undivided attention. The same for ds2. Start with communication.

saltire, are you ok?

Miaou -I've just had enough I really have. They will not stop bickering and fighting. There is F* all to do here. I tried Beavers and Cubs - was told well we can't take DS1 because he will be going up to Scouts next year and there is no rooom for him there - so they wouldn't even take him in Cubs even though there was room. No room at all in beavers for DS2.
As for youth clubs etc - well for some reason there are things like this provided on every other Married quarter estate in the area, but not on the one I live in. They do family clubs, youth activities, holiday groups etc. Nothing at all here though. DS1 goes to football twice a week after school and rugby - all activties arranged by the teachers. DS2 doesn't like sport though.
I am having to go out and work just now, 20 hours a week. It's killing me, as my Fibromyalgia is really bad, but since I'm not allowed to work as a CM, and won't be able to until at least February/march there's not a lot else I can do. The DSes I think know that I don't have the physical or emotional energy to cope with them sometimes, when I am in pain almost 24/7. I do try to likie it here, but when you live in an area like this, with people who don't speak to you, in a crap house, with a DH who for the first time in 22 years in teh RAF has had enoguh and is getting stressed, well it's hard to find something positive.

This morning they have just started again. DS2 ripped up DS1's homework, so DS1 threw a bowl of weetabix at him, which of course missed and is now dripping everywhere. They ahve been banned from PS2,TV,Grounded and DH ahs said not to let them on the PC either - but still they go on.
What can I do? I am so, so fed up with it

oh saltire I;m so sorry, you are having a really rough time!! I have to go out now but will come back to this later. I'm hoping some other people have some words of wisdom here too.

In the meantime have another virtual big (((((hug)))))

OK, have had a think. At 9 and 7 I would guess they are old enough to understand about peoples' feelings other than their own. Can you sit down, the four of you, and both you and dh talk to them about how you all need to work together as a family. You could use the wooden spoon technique (substitute for a soft toy if you feel it might get used as a weapon!) - only the person holding the wooden spoon can speak. This way the boys can get their say too. Even if it's just a chance for you all to air your grievances it will get you communicating. Eg each person gets to start a sentence "I feel sad when ..." and "I feel happy when ..." . If everyone feels they are being heard then it might help to lift the mood a bit.

In terms of other things you can do - can you arrange a trip out bowling (if you can manage that) or to the cinema? Activities you can do together as a family and encourage working together. Will think more.

Are you rewarding the good behaviour when they do anything well or nice?

Perhaps positive re-inforcement of the good and not reacting to the bad might work better.

Do you shout when they misbehave? If you do, don't shout, get down on their level and just be stern.

As for grounding...etc.. if you've already removed all of their priviledges, what else do they have to lose? If its all gone, they may as well carry on being bad because it can't get any worse.

Sit them down, lay down some ground rules.. get them to agree and maybe suggest punishments themselves.. get them to sign it and follow through on what they've suggested if they break those rules.

Saltire I'm concerned for you - I hope some of what has been suggested is helpful.

you need to think of an activity that YOU would like - that they can do too - there is nothing worse than trying to be nice to your kids whilst doing something you detest ( in my case cooking - just kill me and have done!)

i like drawing - i have an "art bag" bits of crepe paper glue etc.

fruits of labout ar easily cellotaped to kitchen door

even at 13 - they get a kick out of it.

try making with them a certificate for the greatest brother int he world they have to think of a nice thing and them make a certificate.

poems are good too.

at 9 & 7 i used to make mine give each other a kiss and a love and say sorry - thye hated it

routine is key i find. - my house is shithole - i am no mother earthy type person and my routine has to shift depending on life.

however planout the evenign when they get home from school - so mon = craft night
tue = bake a cake night ( puke)
wed = board game

etc.

i used to always make them get changed when they got home
make them hang uniform up
make them get out homework and complete it with me sitting there with a brew with spare pens on hand

then they can have something small to eat like a butty or toast - because they have dinner hours before and low sugar levels make them grumpy

then you can do your together time
then they can help you tidy it up
then they can watch telly

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you need to get your head in a good place.

good punishments for mine were making them do maths - you can get them off the internet. - more school work after being at school is so pants.

another tip

dont carry ont he punishments for a long time - short shap shock - ps2 banned for one night

my dh always goes overboard with " your never seeing daylight again!!" well thats clearly unreasonable.

and look after yourself

great advice as usual custy