ds1 dislocated ds2's arm AGAIN today - wtf do I do with him?

[BitTiredNow]

ds1 is 4 - vcery big for his age - 3 weeks ago dislocated ds2 (2 and a half) elbow - rough and tumble - thought I had got through to him - did exaclty the same thing to him yesterday. Shows not even a trace of apology, just laughs - I have NO idea how to handle this. I am so angry with him I could easily explode. i am on my own.

No ideas I'm afraid but noticed no one else had replied and felt for you. That's really hard for you. I presume he doesn't mean to. I guess they are not very good at emphathising (sp?) when they are little.

Bumping for you in case someone else has suggestions!

Did you take ds2 to hospital?

If he needs to go back again, perhaps when you go back you could get the doctor to have a little word with ds1?

Explain to him that it's not a joke to hurt his little brother.

How did you punish him?

I don't know if you should be so cross, unless he's doing it deliberately to hurt.

Apparently it's quite common. It's called pulled elbow or nursemaid's elbow and they grow out of it by the time they're 4/5.

My youngest had it, caused the first time by his brother "helping" him up onto the bed by his arms. After that though it took very little, just taking hold of his hand to cross the road could do it.

Our GP showed me a simple twist move to put it back, then he'd be all back to normal until next time.

He's 4 1/2 now and hasn't done it for about 4 months.

The laughing could be embarassment, or simply that he doesn't know what he did wrong, as it can happen very easily.

he doesn't understand what he has done, he will have only the most basic grast of human anatomy. Also, once a joint has been dislocated once, it stays very loose for a while, making it much easier to do it again - so the chances are that your four year old was nowhere near as rough as last time.

I would second asking the doctor to have a word. Ds1 has a MummyFilter.

thank you all for your replies - I had to take ds2 to hospital both times as he was in complete agony. This was a real performance as I have 3 altogether and putting them all in the car to drive 40 minutes and then sitting waiting for ages was hard. But he was VERY rough both times, and I don't know what to do - although I am very angry (and who wouldn't be at seeing their child in so much pain twice) I have been very calm with ds1 and tried to reason with him - no punishment.

Yes, I think too that the laughing is just a four year old's response to the situation...don't read anything into it or think that he's going to grow up like this; four is still very young indeed and empathy takes a LONG time to develop. Your ds is not unusual, nor is he unfeeling or unkind. he's just four. The laughing too is just a knee jerk reaction.

As others have said I have heard of this dislocation happening quite easily, my neice had it done to her by her own dad she stumbled on a step and he kind of yanked her hand upwards to stop her going over, and ended up dislocating it. So don't think either that you are raising a thug.

I think maybe concentrate on keeping a time limit on the rough and tumble. I find the longer it goes on the more is the chance of tears and bumps etc. Maybe once you've given them five minutes you could intervene and get them onto another activity; I know it's hard sometimes but boys really do need to get out every day, do they get a chance to run off some steam outside?

I understand your worries but I do think there's no point being so cross. Your ds is only four...

HG, thank you for your reply - it was very helpful, but I cannot help being cross, but at least I am not showing it to him.

Yes, I can really understand you being cross, having had to trawl accross to hospital twice for this.

And you are showing more restraint that 99% od people would, in not showing him how cross you are!

Is it possible you could use this as a chance to really stamp on the rough and tumble? Your ds can't fail to remember these hospital trips so it's a good thing to use to remind him, no - we don't do that because people get hurt. I only have a singleton, and when I was a kid I had a brother and I think the boy/girl dynamic is different re rough and tumble, so I realise I am SO not an expert, but I wonder if it is possible to discourage rough and tumble almost completely......perhaps all the mothers of more than one boy out there will be along now to explain in words of one syllable that I am talking tosh

But maybe discourage ALL violent, 'fighty' TV, stamp on any rough and tumble as soon as it happens, and encourage them to use their physicality on other things.....

Ohhh I have two, one mad big four year old, and one small interfering 18 month old

I would say, stamp on the tumbling.

The most commonly used phrase in this house is "Do Not Do That To Your Brother!"

Do Not

1. insert things into any part of his body
2. Put the cat on him
3. Give him things to eat that you found in the pushchair shopping basket
4. Put the toy box over him and sit on it
5. hook blankets around his waist and swing him round like a catapult, I don't care if he does like it, I don't care how much he is laughing
6. cut his hair give me those scissors where did you get them from!
7. feed him salt to see if he likes it
8. attempt to lift him by the toes
9. pull him onto the sofa by one arm and I do not care if he wants to sit with you, sit on the floor then.
10. Push his face with your foot.
11. put your feet or hands anywhere on him for any reason
12. For God's sake just stay away from each other, why do you do this every time I go and have a poo? Aren't I allowed to even wipe my flaming bottom?

though I have to say number 5 is REALLY funny

rofl at colditz - that makes me feel much much better. I use most of those phrases as well with monotonous regularity. (no 5 though is yet to happen chez tired.....)

H- thanks for your kindness too - this is why I love mumsnet!!