I have had enough of DS1 waking about 5am every day. It's affecting his behaviour, It's affecting me, because I can hear him

[saltire]

Ever since he was a toddler DS1 wakes anytime between 4.45 and 6am. Today it was 5.15.
His behaviour is atrocious. Part of this we have put down to his age (almost 10), moving house, and I've now decided a big part of it is tiredness. It doesn't matter what time he goes to bed, it's always the same time he wakens. He stays in bed, but puts the light in the room on. We have had to put the boys into seperate bedrooms during the week, so he didn't wake DS2. Even if we get up and tell him not to put the light on and get back into bed he won't go back to sleep or make any attempt to. Then he will go downstairs and watch TV. Sometimes he goes into the room his brother is in and wakes him up - depending what mood he is in.
The mood this morning is atrocious, weetabix thrown across table, huffing and puffing and slamming doors.
If any one can suggest a way of altering his body clock I would be very grateful

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My sympathies. But I think there are a few things you could try:

1. Remove all sources of stimulation for two hours before bed and before school - no tv to get up for might discourage him.
2. Increase his exercise levels to exhaust the little blighter!
3. Blackout blinds (not just for babies!)
4. Check he's not eating lots of rubbish as this can interrupt sleep for some people.
5. When he does manage to get to 7am, make sure he knows it's appreciated with a treat (ideally one that will exhasust him like swimming).

Good luck

We have blackout blinds - on his bedroom window, the other bedroom window and the bathroom window! He just switches the lights on. it's almost as if his body clock is set to this time. He plays football after school every day with his friends, but there is nothing else going on - he used to go to youth club 2 nights a week,and cubs one night, but there is nothing nearby. Well there is a cubs, but the woman won't take him "because we won't have room for him in 2 years time when he goes up to scouts". Mind you it never made any difference to his waking time.
He is in a foul temper today, he has cried and whinged all morning.

I have asked the doctor, and the response was "well a lot of children waken early, he'll grow out of it"

My ds wakes early. Could your son be hungry/thirsty? or cold?

You can get blackout window cling, but atm it's dark until about 7am, so I don't think it;s the sun waking him!

Do you have neighbours leaving for work or a milkman delivering at that time?

We had to resort to 'Phenergan' to keep son asleep past 3 - 4.30am, so him waking at 5am IS an improvement!

Yes, the do grow out of it, usually by their teens, if you can wait that long

My kids are a lot younger but early morning waking in them is almost always due to being cold. I add another layer and it sorts it out.

Agree that being able to go and watch tv is almost an incentive to get up. If you have cable you can put a block on it so you can't actually switch it on before, say, 7.00am in the morning (firends have done this for their ds who was getting up at 5.30, sneaking downstairs and putting it on).

Does he know what the time is by the way? is there a clock in the room?

i think if this was me I'd re approach the GP. It does sound as if his tiredness is affecting his mood and therefore your family life, and also he is still a young child; you want him to have his rest so that he can develop to his full potential, don't you, it's not JUST about early wakings; sleep is so important developmentally.

maybe you could google sleep clinics or sleep information on line, just to give you an idea what you are asking the GP for. I have learned over the years that you may get more help if rather than go in and describe symptoms, you go in and say "Hi, we would like a referral to xxxxx please, here is their address" or "We would like to try xxxxxx drug please here is some research I've found". Prob won't be the GP's favourite person but you may get somewhere with that approach.

In the meantime I think what I would do is lay ds out a little programme for the morning, so he has a 'pathway' to follow and doesn't just think "oh I'll go and wake my borther". Maybe something like a little snack and drink, and a new magazine or something? And make it clear the night before, that if he wakes before you (if!?!) he can go down and watch a DVD which you've left ready but that if he's noisy and annoying that won't be on the cards. He's got to be a ninja in order to get the DVD.

Good luck. I know how awful early mornings are, and I do think it needs dealing with.

Meant to say I do see what people say about TV being an incentive to get up, but I think a child who has been doing this for about eight YEARS is different; clearly he needs no incentive to get up, his body clock is where it is and him thinking "hmm, it's five am and I can't watch TV till 7, ok I'll go back to bed then" is clearly not going to happen! For that reason I personally wouldn't mind using the TV as something for him to do.

There are two alternatives. One is that you decide that he is an early riser and live with it - but things like waking his brother up, from a 10yo is totally unacceptable IMO. My 6yo would not dream of waking my 3yo up.

But you think he is tired. What time does he go to bed? I'm not sure how much sleep a 10yo needs TBH.

my 9 yo DS3 does this, and tbh i just let him now - he has to be quiet (I'm normally charming but not at 5am )
He just gets dressed, can help himself to brekfast but generally waits until I get up for that and plays with his bionicles or watches tv. I've never known how you could stop someone from naturally waking at that time. My DS1 used to do it, now he's 14 I have to shout him up at 7am.
I would just make it clear to him that he must not wake anyone else up, and if he does watch tv then it must be on low (you may need to specify an actual noise level - on ours it's no louder than 23 before mum or dad are out of bed)
In general i haven't found loads of exercise to help - he does xc running twice a week, rugby four times a week, badminton once and swims once, as well as cubs how early could it be without that ?

it may be worth asking a different gp for melatonin, a natural chemical that helps people with jet lag to re-set their body clocks. i work with children with ASCs who often also have sleep problems and it can really help some of them.

I really feel for you Saltire.

My eldest DS also does this, the other day he was up at about 4.40. 6 am is usually the latest he gets up, regardless of the time of night he goes to bed. On the incredibly rare occasions he sleeps until 7 am he is a much nicer, calmer and less angry child. He is 7 and shares a room with his 4.5 year old brother. Every morning he will wakes him up by turning on lights, banging about, etc, sometimes he even just prods him until he wakes up! He then spends the next couple of hours shouting and hurting his (admittedly tired and whingy) brother. I am expecting a baby in December and am worried that his early rising is going to affect the baby's sleep patterns too.

I understand he is bored in the morning on his own but I really feel he needs more sleep. His Dad has always had to get up fairly early for work (6-6.30) so I think that is some of the problem. He also insists on sleeping in just pyjama bottoms so I think perhaps he may be cold too.

Today I am buying a clock with illuminated numbers for his room and am going to try telling him he must not get out of bed before there is a 7 at the beginning of the time. I am hoping that if he wakes up and knows he must stay in his bed then he is more likely to drift back off to sleep. I am thinking extra pocket money as a reward each week (he loves having money).

Oh god saltire, you could be writing about my DS1. He's 6yrs and has always got up early. He just naturally wakes up between 5 and 6am and cannot get himself back to sleep. We've tried everything over the years and it is so frustrating because he definitely needs at least an hour more sleep. Some days he goes to school looking absolutely knackered.

INteresting about the melatonin.

And beckle, we've just bought DS a clock so he doesn't have to get out of bed to see what time it is - having said that, I really think the issue with him is that he just does wake up early and he is unable to get himself back to sleep - whatever his clock says!

oh gosh this is a bit depressing . Ds is only 3 but has always been like this too. I was so hoping he would grow out of it before he starts school.

We have been trying a bunny clock but it isn't working, ds just can't get back to sleep. He can usuallly get back to sleep after about 2 to 2.5 hrs so if he wakes at 3am or so he will go back to sleep eventually but after 4am there is no point as he will take until 6.30am to get back to sleep and then it is pretty much time to get up.

It seems that once he has slept 8 or more hours and then he is woken then he has real trouble getting back to sleep. He does get very tired and it makes him very grumpy by the end of the day.

We try and deal with it by ensuring he gets a very early night (6 or 6.30pm) as often as possible so that at least he is getting the sleep he need but it does intefer with family life quite a lot as he needs to be in bed so early.

Later nights really don't help. We have tried this at various times for a few weeks to allow it to kick in but he still wakes between 5 and 5.30am. It is a bit better in the winter when he gets up between 5.30 and 6am . Very occasionally he sleeps until 6.30am but this is a real lie in.

Desperate Saltire... hoq truly awful
Is there anyway you could get him to simply switch on a bedside light and coerce/force/backmail/threaten him to stay in bed and read til 7am.
Failing that I'd consider locking him in to fully allow him to appreciate your point.

I wasn't ignoring this thread, I've just got back from work.

We have our evening meal about 6pm, this is when DH gets in. Abut 7pm DS2 goes off for his bath or shower, DS1 usually talks football with his dad, or DH lets him watch Sky Sports news (yes it's his favourite channel). Ds2 is uaully in bed between 7.15 -7.45. Ds1 usually goes to bed between 8 and 8.30 and is asleep within 10 minutes. He has pyjamas on and the house is quite warm, so i don't thinik its being cold that wakens him.
he has a clock in the room and there is one in the bathroom as well, so he knows the time. If I thought he would just lie quietly reading I would let him get on with it, but he won't.

It is tiredness that is affecting his behaviour though, so even me allowing him to read, or watch Tv isn't going to make a difference to his tiredness is it? It also annoys me that he wakens DS2 who seems to need so much more sleep

Oh no don't lock him in. I find that quite worrying tbh

Maybe move bed time to 9-9.30?

8 till 6 is 10 hours' sleep, which actually sounds as if it might be a reasonable amount for many 10 year olds. DS1 is 9 but is never asleep before 9 - we have lights out at 9 now and he usually sleeps till just before 7, so about the same in hours.

If you gradually move his bedtime later (15 minutes a week or something), you might find that he gradually over a few months starts sleeping later. (Or of course you might not!) Mine don't sleep in if it's just one or two late nights, but after about a week or two they start adjusting.

It does sound awful for you and exhausting for him.

Well I would certainly nip in the bud him waking DS too up. I would use grounding, removal of priveleges etc. I really think he is old enough to know better than this. As to your second point, I don't know really.

My DS2 is the same Saltire, he needs much more sleep than he is currently getting! He will be 5 in January and until June he was still sleeping 2 hours every afternoon and then 12 hours through the night. I have had to cut this sleep out for him in preparation for school so now he is really suffering for being got up so early.

I'm not sure about the suggestions of letting your DS (or mine for that matter!) go to bed later will do much good if he is already overtired. He may eventually sleep later in the mornings but his behaviour will still be affected. (Although DS2 would be more likely to get the sleep he needs).