How do i discipline my rabid, roaring 4 yr old ds??? help please!

[notsoladyjess]

sorry for lairy subject title but need some advise.
ds1 is 4 next months and has turned into a really aggressive, temperamental, disagreeable thing. it is driving us mad and making every day into a chore. we are currently travelling through europe in a motorhome so prob not the most ideal place to be when he is like this (could this be causing it?). I am full of guilt and really stressed out about it all.
i dread every day as i know he is going to kick off. he has always been an energetic boy but the aggression is just horrible. he kicks and hits and swears at us and growls and looks so unhappy. he has a huge episode where my dh has to eventually hold him down as he is kicking up so much. it is so awful and we both feel terrible afterwards. when we try to ask ds1 how he feels he says something mundane like 'but i really wanted an orange'. makes me feel like i am going mad.

anyway, blah blah, sorry have gone on - have you and advice on how to deal with this behaviour. we used to use the naughty step at home but in the van it is not working. we want to be consistent but my dh is getting to the point that he wants to give ds1 a smack (in fact he has twice already which i am not happy about but hey, is this the only thing they will respond to?). i thought we were supposed to lead by example.

please respond if you have had boys who have behaved like this. i know all the advice from the books but i sometimes feel it all applies to really well behaved children who always do as they are told! i want some realists please!!

sorry for banging on but i am feeling just so unhappy. i am ashamed of ds1 at times as he is so disagreeable. i know some of it is normal but i want to know how i should approach it. d btw ds2 is just 2 and has started copyin ghte shouting and stuff. by 10am i feel run ragged. just had enough.

many thanksx

Hi, we are in a similar (but less extreme) position. Today I have tried punishing him sooner, i.e. less of the 'if you do that one more time'. His punishment is that I carry him up to his bedroom and shut the door, holding it shut from the outside if necessary. About 4 minutes later I open the door and ask if he is ready to put on his pyjamas/stop hitting his sister/share his toys or whatever and he says yet.

Too soon to tell, but what I am hoping is that it is like the horror that was controlled crying three years ago: ghastly at the time but worked pretty quickly.

Incidentally, I have latched onto a cycle of 'ask, tell, act'. I ask him nicely to put on his pyjamas, then I tell him firmly, then I cart him off to his room. If you are interested I'll tell you a bit more. Or maybe you want to wait and see how it works first

that should have been 'yes', not 'yet'.

thanks for the link, very interesting and yes it fits, growth spurt, very loud, getting more physically boisterous. Comforting to know other have experienced this too.

hello, thanks for the link, yes i was on that one but i was after some ways of coping with it.
lio - i would like to hear more about what you are doing and whether it is working.
email me direct (not sure how it works - can you see my email address?).
thanks, feel less alone in it all already!
x

hi nslj, I have CAT-ed you, which means you'll get an email from me soon, maybe tomorrow (check your junk box too, they sometimes go in there). Once you've got back in touch we'll both know each other's email addresses. Night night.

Hi just joined due to this type of unmanageable behaviour i am having with my 4 year old It is so hard i am so worried my parents dropped him & his little sister off today from one night break and told me has been fine but minute came home he let off sat in hall with hands on head. came round eventually. think little bit jealous of attention his nearly two year old sister got from family also said he doesnt know what to do and he is sad in his heart & that it hurts which really upset me today and makes me feel really guilty like i am making him feel like this through the way i am dealing with it. (ie shouting like hell and sometimes smacking) it is so draining. I dread most days! He is also waking at 4am which i think could be making him so tired!Thanks for being brave enough to discuss!aggghhh!!!

Same here.
Lio's strategy works for us.
Another one is taking a favorite toy away untill next day......I know the other word for it is blackmail but it really works.
Good luck.

oh mamakass that is sad and hard to deal with (when he says he is sad in the head and that it hurts). Is there a way that you could arrange to spend some time just you and him (i.e. without his sister)?

Mine gets like that unless he has a really good hard run about for a couple of hours a day. Not possible every day sadly...

Is it lack of exercise? Obviously you're not stuck in the van all day but is he getting the chance to have a proper run about?

I've leapt onto this thread because I have a friend with a fairly unmanageable 5YO DS.
Neither she, nor I, nor his reception teacher think there's any kind of ADS problem causing it: he behaves well at school and whenever I have seen him (fairly regularly at M&T groups and his mother and I sometimes take all our kids out together, my DS (3), her 5YO and his 2YO brother.)

FWIW I sort of think she's not firm enough with him and he's pushing the boundaries - can anyone recommend a book on dealing with stroppy kids that isn't too wildly authoritarian? She has said to me in the past that she is unhappy with being too firm as both her DS were premies and ill for quite a long time (they are now both robust, lively, average sizes for their ages etc).

Hi, never done this before but felt compelled to add to thread. I also have nightmare 4yo. V. sweet most of the time but does hit/wrestle other children, including his cousin who is 6yo! I'm always consitent and do timeout but not much change in behaviour yet! Also grins at me when being told off and just doesn't seem to care. They know how to push your buttons! I just hope this phase doesn't last too long.
Good to know I'm not alone though.

hi, thanks for advice lio re quality time alone, it is something i would love to have, always so easy for anyone to take my 4yr old son rather than 20mth old sister but must try to make more of a concious effort because it is lovely when we can. Good prompt. Toy thing works some times although am finding myself much more equiped after break at weekend and hearing of people in the same boat, knowing your not alone helps so much. Also quite keen to get raising boys book can anyone recommend this. I thought i knew my son and didnt need this book but i really just want him to be a boy and know the difference between that and him being out of order!!! Shutting in room seems to be working if done straight away until he appologises (dont think it should have any set time am i being to soft)thanks again!!!

I found Raising Your Spirited Child really helpful in accepting that some children are just like this temperementally, and in understanding where they're coming from and how best to help them. It defines 'spirited' as something like active, intense, sensitive, easily distracted, persistant but they don't have to be all of these things to be 'spirited'.

It really helped me understand DD1 (5.5) who has always been like this, but I don't know if this is the case for your DS's or if it's 'just a phase'. It talks about parents temperament too and how this can sometimes clash with their DC's particularly if the parents are 'spirited' too. Well I always thought it was all my DD's fault but now I can accept that the way I handled her wasn't helping matters! Just understanding and accepting that has made things much calmer between us. Hope that's helpful.

Pleasure, mamakass, and thanks for the tip re the 'spirited' book CFCM. I will look out for it at the library. Not read the 'raising boys' one mamakass, but I bet if you do a search (on Mumsnet, I mean, there's facility at the top of the page) you will find some reviews.

I'm on my 3rd little boy, also 4 next month. Also have a dd, who didn't go through the terrible fours !

Fresh air and exercise.
Fresh air and exercise.
Firm talking.
Oh and did I mention fresh air and exercise ?

Have posted on another similar thread, but wanted to join here too. I too have a "spirited" 4.5 year old ds. Have read the posts here with interest and there is some really helpful stuff. Thanks everyone, and it is so comforting to know that I'm not alone. Can really identify with some of the comments.

Next stop Amazon to order some of the book suggested.

thanks again everyone cfcm am a great believer in spirit wish a lot more children have it really and am very aware of being spirited myself at times and how this is effecting our relationship I think this is what can make it even more hard to accept when you know that you are not doing all you can so am really looking forward to the book you recommended. miobambino lucky you lots of practice with boys I wish we didn't have to learn our parenting skills on our first born as mine is I will keep at fresh air and excercise however, we do have a dog and are very out doory people here in the country where we live, looking to get some support from a child/school support worker so will( as the 4am rises are more frequent) let you know if this helps.anyone any tips on early risers???all the best!

DS had a big hulk-out at this age and becamne very shouty and temeramental.

I thnk that at this age they have a big testosterone surge, and have more testosterone on thier bodies than at any other stage in their lives. This is all in Steve Biddulph's Raising Boys, and one of the reasons it is thought that settling boys in school should happen later than in the English system.

I agree with the fresh air and excercise approach, but also some surprise reverse reactions: respond with humour rather than confrontation, kiss and cuddle them and jolly them into stuff (I think they find themselves rather scary, sometimes hence the big increase in suden tears that went with DS's hulking-out phase - and a spate of wetting himself), talk to them unnaturally quietly and intimately, rather than get locked into shouting them down to be heard, etc etc.