How can I talk to my friend about her children's behaviour without upsetting her?

[mumofbodkin]

I really hope this doesn't sound unkind, but it would really, really help me out if some of you other mums could tell me how you have handled similar situations with the children of your friends.
We have dear friends with 2 kids. We have known each other since the children were babies. We have one, she has 2. We help each other out alot and my partner and I sometimes have her kids overnight. For a long time now though we have found their behaviour really challenging. Her son is really destructive and on his last visit he deliberately broke 3 of my daughters toys (2 he broke by throwing them at the wall. At my daughters birthday party he was rude, cheated through all the games, threw one prize he won on the floor and said it was "rubbish", and pushed and shoved and hurt other children. His mum was at the party and did nothing to stop him. It was really embarrassing and as we have a very small house it really dominated the party (and kind of spoilt it for us).

Their daughter is not destructive but has fairly constant tantrums even if asked to do something simple like come to the table for tea.

When we have them on their own without their parents they are still very hard work but we are firm with them. I can't honestly say we enjoy it though.

I really adore my friend, she is probably my closest "babyfriend" and I don't want to fall out with her. Does anyone have any ideas of a sensitive way I can handle this without offending her? The only alternative seems to be to distance myself from her and I really don't want to do that.

I want to be able to continue to be friends and to be able to help each other out.

I'd really appreciate your ideas.

Thanks,

MumofBodkin x

ps I'd just like to add that I know that my own daughter is not perfect. She can be annoying too but she is a very well behaved child and frankly if she behaved the way these 2 do in front of me or my partner we would be appalled!

How old are the children?
I have to say my instinctive reaction is that there is nothing you can do. If the parents are happy to ignore what sounds like appalling behaviour from their children then they clearly don't think there is a problem which means that you are not going to be able to convince them otherwise.
I would confine meetings to neutral territory for the time being, if the children are still toddlers it is amazing how a year or two (and starting school) will make a big difference to their behaviour. Or not.

very difficult to broach this subject without offending her.

She obviously thinks her children are fine the way they are.

The only constructive thing I can think of is to make a point of gently disciplining her children in front of her.It may seem pushy and slightly rude but may also make her see what you think of their behaviour and open up a discussion about it.
It may also piss her off though.

Have you mentioned the broken toys to her?I would want to know if it were my child.

you will offend her if you say anything.

im quite sure they are aware of how difficult she is. they do have her daily after all.

the most i would suggest is when she throws a paddy next, say in a lightheated way "ooh she is hard work isn't she"

strike up a conversation and allow her to give her own opinion on her daughters behaviour.

or maybe find details of a local parenting group and ask if she would like to go along with you, say you are looking for some idea's for dealing with your own childs challenging behaviour and see if you can get her to come too. she may find it helpfull

how old are the children? I agree with rosa that may make all the difference.

I do think she will be offended. However, she may also be upset to think you have been so affected by it and not said anything.
I'd be horrified if i fond out that my Dd wa really difficult for other people and they didnt tell me. I'd want to sort it out.

Maybe when her Ds was naughty in front of you and her, she just ddnt want to cause a scene at your party by intervening?

COuld you perhaps go for a coffee with her, and just carefully tell her about the last time he stayed, about hte toys. tell her you havent said anything because you didnt want to upset or piss her off.
Also you thought it was a one off, but then noticed he was being similar at the party so wanted to offer some help maybe? she might be glad to talk to you about it..

The way it stands, you are prob gong to lose her anyway, as you feel you have to distance yourself due to his behavior. so i cant see there's a lot to lose... just be very tactful and careful in your words...
just and idea anyway..

Hi everyone,

I really appreciate your help with this. The children are twins and all our kids are 5. I should add that we have had some fun times with the kids too but mostly it has been hard work. The big dilema for us is that all of us are staying home for Christmas and they have asked us to spend Christmas eve and day with them. After the last few weeks I don't think we could stand it especially if there are going to be lots of broken toys.

After your advice I think the next time we are chatting and the kids come up I might be able to say something positive about the kids but how they need a firm hand in a sort of lighthearted way and then maybe tell her about her son breaking the toys and ask how she would like me to handle that sort of behaviour next time we look after them. What do you think? It sort of puts the ball in her court and maybe gives the message but indicates that I respect that they are her children and hopefully she knows best?!

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks so much again.

xx

The neutral territory suggestion is a very good idea for the time being. Thanks xx

Very tough, I have a similar prob with friend, her two kids are really out of control and spoilt, as a result of not being given any boundaries.
I end up telling them off ( fairly gently) in front of their mum. Feel bad but my attitude is that they are in my house, and they shouldl fit in with my rules...
God knows what the other mum thinks but she hasn't complained yet!

Bluejelly's comment made me wonder if the mum doesn't have an idea how to sort the kids out, or maybe they are angels for her?

I would mention that "Johnny" broke two touys last time he was at your house and how would she like you to encourage him not to do it again when in your house?

I wouldn't spend Xmas with them, 2 days together is a lot, especially as it sound slike it woul dbe quite stressful.

Say nothing.

If something happens, like breaking of toys, you could report that as a fact, but with no comment or opinion.

I speak from experience of someone who opens their mouth way too readily on these things (and, conversely, have no problem if a friend does similiar with me) but have always rgretted it and usually with good reason. i should have kept shtumm. If your freind wants advice or feedback, she will ask.

If you would like to spend time at Christmas, go over on Christmas afternoon and take no new toys with you - or only indestructibele ones!

I'm with Mamazon. Your friend may be in denial, but may well be aware of it, and be embarrassed.

My dss can both be very challenging, and whilst I would never ignore behaviour like this, I have appreciated one friend who reflects kindly on what is going on. "Gosh he is stretching all of the boundaries today isn't he?" or "He is lovely but very hard work isn't he?"

Those sort of comments don't make me feel judged, but give me a bit of energy to keep on going rather than just removing the kids from the situation.

Equally, we have one friend who has very different rules from us, but my kids really respect her as she makes them so clear. At her house, no one is allowed to speak loudly let alone shout, for example. We all remind ourselves on the way what is allowed and we survive better than with other more likeminded friends.

Nab3
She is aware that they are badly behaved but doesn't deal with it effectively. Also seems to have a higher tolerance to bad behaviour than me, and allows her children to totally dominate her.

I find it a very strange way of parenting and it leads to some rather stressful meet-ups

Our children get on well though!

I have had the same problem with my friends children. We mow rarely see them, not because she has fallen out with me but because I cant stand sitting there while DS1 and DS2 behave so badly and she says nothing at all. I thought it was age at first and that her DS1 would grow out of it however he is now 8 and behaves worse evertime I see him. I also agree with the earlier poster though... If they are in my house misbehaving and she says nothing to them then I DO......

I felt the same with a very good friend of mine when ours were little, her parenting was so different to mine. It resulted in doing the neutral territory idea, parks, pools, gyms-places instead, where behaviour issues seem less irritating and the children have more space to play. Maybe also try going to her house more so you are less defensive over your own home. Plus see her more on her own, without the children, so you keep in touch.
Christmas is a tricky issue, maybe do the Eve and not the day? That is surely a happy middle ground?
Ours are a lot older now, and much more compatible, so there is hope!

Mumofbodkin, your idea of asking her how she would like you to deal with the situation of him breaking the toys or behaving in that way sounds like a really good idea.

it seems that way, you are giving her the 'control' as it were, asking her advise and opinion and not being judgemental. you are putting the ball in her court. its worth a go I would have thought.

As for christmas, you have to think about your christmas and how you want to spend it with your family... if you think its going to be too stressfull, then just thank her for the invite but say you think you would like a really quiet time with just you lot at home together and pop over for a drink christmas eve or a meal maybe... thne spend a quiet less stressful day with your Dh and Dc!

hope you resolve it somehow! might be a bit of awkward time for a short while, then much longer of it being much better...

I agree that you should ask her the next time you see her by the way one of your children broke 3 of our toys the last time they were here, and I was just wondering how you usually discipline them themselves.

But please remember that you have one child that you have to keep occupied and raise, you don't have 2 that takes turns in being bad or gang up on you.

I know with my two they tend to take turns in being bad, kind of oh my brother has finished being bad so it must be my turn now.

I think that parents of 2 children sometimes find it just that little bit too hard and let their children get away with a little more than if they had to keep track of just the one child, if you see what I mean.

Thanks again, all great advice. I am someone who finds it very hard to confront things like this. I hate conflict with friends. I teach early years so am very at ease at talking to parents about their children and their behaviour but it's different when it's your friends.

I'm always aware that we are all sensitive about our kids and we also all have different rules as well as different behaviour which really annoy us!

I will bear this in mind and try to let you know how it panned out. My dd has been poorly this week so I haven't seen much of anyone which has given me a bit of space and time to reflect on it!

xx

I just wouldn't go there.
Nobody likes being told that their children are badly behaved - especially coming from a friend.

Yes, I do agree about having 1 child (although it's not my choice!) My daughter is quite mild mannered and quiet by nature so I fully agree that they have alot more on their plate. Even so there are some behaviours that I think you just can't "let go" like intentionally breaking things.

I know Claricebeansmum it is a horrible thought but I think I either confront it in some way or other or avoid having them over for prolonged periods which would be a shame as it's great to be able to help friends out.

I must admit though that I did look away once when one of mine misbehaved, as otherwise I would have broken down completely. I was so close to just standing there screaming, crying, stamping my feet and shouting that I had had enough who wants two monsters.

I had had to deal with them taking turns for 2 days on end, neither of them listening, and it was going to have been the final straw if I had had to deal with that particular incident as well. I deliberately chose to go to my happy place in my head.

Please note that I would never have allowed them to hurt another child, and I would have offered to pay for the broken toy once I had returned from said happy place.

I am faced with a similar situation in the mum's group whom I meet ever so often. Because my Dd is very well-behaved and steers clear of trouble, I can sense that a couple of the other mums actually are wondering what I might be doing that my dd is like this. They are obviously ladies from good backgrounds , so their kids behaviour embarrasses them but they cover it up effectively by saying how bubbly and spontaneous their Dd is. One day when one of them saw my hungry and tired Dd showing some irritable behaviour, she expressed relief that my girl could also be like that. I found that interaction unpleasant, I felt as if she had been watching and comparing and possibly feeling jealous, but then relieved when she saw my Dd in one of her bad moments.I also don't know how to react when I see their girls behaving stroppily, I just look away neutrally in order not to offend them. But I have sensed that these two mums are always together and not so friendly with me these days, I don't see what I may have done wrong.

Don't mean to offend you Maddy but maybe your whole attitude of your daughter is perfect in every way and it is only their children that can misbehave has something to do with it?

Maisemor, not offended at all, I do see their perspective too you know, they cannot help it. I don't think my dd is perfect, in fact I worry about why she cannot be a bit more "aggressive" (excuse my choice of the term, to me it is a good thing to be like that, it helps you not lag behind). What I was more upset about was the revelation that my friend had been watching and comparing and then feeling better when my Dd was equally "naughty" (again excuse the choice of the term, I do not wish to offend anyone, I believe all children are different, and both type of personalities can offer pros and cons).Sorry if you felt judged.