herbal sleep remedies

[andreax]

my dh as started giving our dd herbal rememedies as she just refuses to sleep through at 9 months. I'm not sure this is ok?

Umm depends what they are - some herbs are actually toxic to kids so it's not a great idea unless he definitely knows what he is doing.

Also he may well impede her long term ability to make melatonin (the hormone that makes you sleepy) if he constantly supplements/replaces it.

NB my one year old has never slept through - some kids don't till they are much older.

he is giving her bach flower remedie in her bottle, and lavender in the bedroom

Well no wonder she's bloody sleeping them - Bach Flower Remedies are based on ALCOHOL!

Which is toxic to the developing liver in case that wasn't clear!

Lavender in the bedroom is fine as long as it's not touching her, essential oils must never be applied undiluted to anyone's skin, least of all the under twos - their skin is half as thick as ours so absorption is much more likely.

Hi there,

Just a few points about Bach Flower Remedies.

BFR are not based on alcohol. They are vibrational energy remedies made from flower essences. They work by re-balancing negative feelings and emotions to positive ones.

They are preserved in alcohol. This is very different to being based on alcohol.

A standard dose is 4 drops 4 times a day so the actual amount of alcohol ingested is 16 drops per 24 hrs.

That said, I understand perfectly the reluctance to give any alcohol at all to a small child and BFR work just as well if rubbed onto the skin. The soles of the feet is a good place to choose for example.
You can also drop the BFR drops into boiling water. This burns off the alcohol. The cooled water can then be given as per the 4 drops x 4 times daily by mouth or rubbed on the skin. They will work just as effectively.

Please be aware that you cannot do any harm with BFR. You cannot give too much and if the wrong remedy is chosen, it simply has no effect. BFR can be given alongside any other treatment, conventional or complimentary.

Also, with reference to the Lavender. Too much of any essential oil can actually over-stimulate and cause the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. Lavender is an excellent choice for inducing sleep but 1 - 2 drops in a diffuser is all that's needed. Too much will cause your baby to be more wakeful.

HTH,

Kath

Sorry but lots of babies don't sleep through at this age and I really don't see how "vibrational energy remedies" can help.

I'm sure lavender in the bedroom is fine but personally think it's dodgy giving any medication to your baby unless strictly necessary (and this is coming from mother of a non-sleeping baby!). Particularly if your DH is dispensing them himself without the advice of a GP.

I meant to add that Bach Flower Remedies have their own official website:

www.bachcentre.com

You can get all the info you need about BFR here. There is a contact number you can ring for advice if you need it. (It's at the bottom of the home page.)

There is also a list of certified practitioners in the UK should you want a consultation.

HTH,

Kath

Also I believe studies have shown that Bach remedies only have a placebo effect... which may work on an adult but hardly likely to on a nine-month-old baby.

Here is the study

I'm not saying that BFR are some sort of 'miracle cure in a moment' for getting babies to sleep through the night.

The point I'm trying to make is that BFR are harmless and can be used alongside any other type of treatment. Therefore, these parents have nothing to lose and may possibly have a calmer, happier baby who is more likely to sleep as a result.

I was treating my own grandson after his birth six weeks ago. At that point, the remedies were for helping my grandson deal with the shock of birth and also to help him adjust to his new world outside the womb which he had been very reluctant to leave! :0) My daughter and SIL tell me that they have have noticed the difference in him since stopping BFR and have asked to me treat him again. He is fussier and a lot more difficult to settle since stopping BFR. And no, they're not just biased because I'm their baby's grandmother. My SIL, in particular, was very sceptical. They, too, have a baby who doesn't sleep well.

When Dr Bach designed his system for using BFR, he did so with the intention that they can be used by anyone who needs them and you do not need to be medically qualified to do so. You don't need to see a certified Practitioner if you don't want to. I mentioned it only because lots of people find seeing a Practitioner to be helpful and confidence-building in the beginning of using BFR for themselves.

People may like to inform their GPs if they're taking BFR as a matter of courtesy. There is no other need for concern because BFR do not affect any other type of treatment no matter what it is.

With respect, I would suggest that if you don't know much about BFR that you go to their website and look at all the info there.

www.bachcentre.com

HTH,

Kath

Thank you for posting the link to the abstract. Unfortunately, it gave no detail of the trials so I can't comment on them..

With regard to the effect of BFR, there are numerous case studies showing improvement in babies and animals using BRF to treat a range of emotional imbalances.

The point of children and animals is that they are impervious to the placebo effect as things cannot be explained or implied to them in a way they can understand. How do you bias a dog for example? This emotional re-balancing and improvement has been documented so many times that it leads to the conclusion that BFR must have an effect beyond the placebo effect or chance.

HTH,

Kath

What on earth is a "vibrational energy remedy" anyway?

Before you answer, do consider that all matter is made up of atoms and their vibrating sub-particles.

I just Googled "vibrational energy remedy" and there is only ONE website even mentioning it. and that website says it is "the Energy and Power of God".

With the greatest respect, a non-sleeping baby is very unlikely to have an "emotional imbalance" that needs "treatment". It's just a baby fgs, waking at night is what they do.

Your point about everything being made up of vibrating particles is exactly what vibrational energy medicine is all about.

My personal view of all this is that if you look at quantum physics which supports the theory of all matter being made of vibrating particles, then the answer lies there although scientists themselves don't really understand it all yet.

Quantum physics also discusses the existence of at least 11 dimensions and possibly more. We are only conscious of living in 4 dimensions for most of our existence. To me, it seems perfectly reasonable that our thoughts, emotions and feelings could have specific vibrations that we are not aware of in our limited physical existence. As BFR are made from the essence of flowers, these would also vibrate at specific frequencies. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that using BFR could 'tap' a negative emotional frequency to a positive one.

If you think about it, how exactly does any medication work. You might take 2 paracetamol tablets for a headache. We know they cause pain relief but how exactly do they work? If you take it right down the fundemental level, those 2 tablets vibrate at a certain frequency as does every cell, every atom in your body. That frequency might change once the tablets are in your digestive system, as they are being absorbed in your blood stream, as they act on nerve and muscle cells. The thing is how exactly do they act? How at intracellular level do they bring about an analgesic effect. I believe that one day we will find out that some sort of vibrational change takes place.

With reference to your link, Dr Bach who discovered the remedies was a very spiritual man and makes many allusions to the power of God and spirituality in his work. For me, I see this purely from the perspective of spirituality and not religion.

Finally, this is an excellent discussion but it has hi-jacked the thread. Perhaps we should move the discussion elsewhere? I wouldn't want andreax who posted the original message to think we are ignoring her concern for her child.

Best wishes,

Kath

The point about emotional imbalance is that it isn't neccessarily a big thing. It can be anything from a fleeting moment of, say, annoyance at something, to a profound depression.

Also, we are creatures of constant balance vs imbalance; just look at our basic physical function, and it is scientifically proven that any living entity is in a constant state of flux.

No one knows what babies think and feel until they are able themselves to tell us. We do know that babies are far more capable of rational thought and of emotions and feelings than was once thought. Again, this is scientific fact.

I find it a little odd to think that a baby would have no thoughts or feelings that might affect its sleep. My sleep can be affected if I'm upset so I don't understand why a baby might not be affected in the same way. Why would I assume they might not feel things just because they're babies? That thought raises horrible memories for me of reading about medical procedures being done on babies because it was believed their nervous systems were too immature to feel pain. Thank God, that sort of rubbish has been proven to be untrue and babies are now given proper analgesia. But, if we got it wrong in underestimating a babies ability to feel pain, maybe we still have it wrong about what a baby might think or feel.

Best wishes,

Kath

I will sign off this thread too before my annoyance at this kind of pseudo-science makes me say something untoward

To the OP, I would only suggest that you look on the Sleep board for lots of sympathy and advice on ways to cope with a non-sleeping baby.

Lindiriel - How to put this nicely? No, that is not how things work.

That is not how pharmacology works. (paracetemol does not cure your headache by vibrating but blocking an enzyme that transmits pain)

That is not how quantum particles work. (too long to explain here, just look it up)

Sorry, but I will also take my leave from this thread. You need to read up on stuff you are talking about. From scientific sources, not hacks that make up terms like "vibrational energy medicine" and explain it as "God's energy".

And, obviously, quantum physics has nothing to do with medicine. It just can't. As you would know, if you had read anything at all about quantum particles, states, etc.

To Cote and Meg,

It's disappointing that you feel this way, however, we're all entitled to our opinions and views. I have written nothing that is hurtful or wrong, or harmful to anyone else, they are simply my opinions.

I thought about replying to your posts further, but see no point in continuing what I thought was an open-minded discussion of thoughts, ideas and philosophies as you both appear to be degenerating into downright rudeness.
Thank you for your earlier contributions, however, they made very interesting reading.

To andreax,

I do apologise to you for the way this thread has turned out and I do wish you, your husband and baby the warmest regards.

Kath