Screaming child, becoming a problem,...really it's glass shattering! Child banned from playgroup. Any ideas to stop it??

[Beenleigh]

I am absolutely fuming!!!! A friend of mine has been asked to leave the church playgroup she goes to because her DD (nearly 2) screams a lot. Apparently other parents have complained. It seems outrageous! (ffs if the child had special needs, then there is no way that this would be acceptable!)

However, the screaming is very loud, glass shatteringly so sometimes, and my friend is struggling to deal with it. It's been going on for several months now, and shows no sign of abating. I think she does it to express a wide range of emotions, but often when she's excited.

Are there any books you could recommend which specifically deal this??

Be very grateful as my friend is very upset, and would love to give her something useful to think about/focus on.

Many Thanks

Just interested, what is her dd's speech like? Is is screaming because she can't make herself understood?

sorry maisie, that is how it came across , that the group organisers were there for the support.

petitfilou, her speech isn;t great. Do you think that this stage may pass when her vocabulary increases, or did you have something else in mind?

Why can't your friend take her DD outside when she starts screaming and bring her back in once she has calmed down?

Without meaning to be insensitive, why exactly does she expect other parents and kids to endure her DD's screaming?

how does your friend manage the screaming though?

you may find a lot of it is due to frustration at not being able to express herslef, and i have every sypmathy. no-one expects a non verbal toddler to be polite and well mannered, but you have to show willing in dealing with it.. i started a thread last week about DDs behaviour at m&ts.... i do sympathise, but your friend has to show willing in dealing with it.

as i said lower down, taking DD to a different group has made a marked difference in her behaviour

This describes my DD2 to a tee. I put the fact that she screams down to sheer frustration at being unable to communicate well enough. It's getting a bit better now she's beginning to talk but TBH her default setting after 22 months of yelling is to scream. It's tiring to say the least.

I can tolerate quite a significant level of it at home but in public I act immediately and very obviously, i.e. I will take her out of the location, be it shop, playgroup, library IMMEDIATELY and just let her have her paddy whilst I ignore her in a space where a) she's safe and b) not stressing other people out. I get some seriously weird and horrible looks from people who think I'm some hideous mother but they don't know the whole story so I just let them.

I would think that it sounds like your friend does her ignoring without the inital removal and that is what gets everyone else upset. Can she talk to the playgroup to reassure them that she will do this in future?

Hi - I have to agree with cotedazur and others - I don;t think the playgroup parents, children or helpers should have to put up with high pitched screaming - the mum should take her lo out as soon as she does it. If the mum is not willing to deal with the screaming, there is nothing that the playgroup/mothers and toddlers can do as they are not in charge of the children and cannot take any responsibility for their behaviour. I suspect that they would have said this as sensitively as possible, but in these instances their hands are tied.

ds didn't scream, but he did misbehave and when he did, I would take him out of the play group.

I have every sympathy with the mother, as this must be tough for her to deal with. But if she doesn't do anything to help to change her dd's behaviour then people will get fed up.

I'm sure that most people would be sympathetic of a mum who was seen to be trying to change unpleasent behavior.

How screaming would have really upset my two, so I can see the situation from both sides.

I've also run play groups and it can be tough if a parent doesn't make any attempt to control their child (not saying that this is the care with your friend but YSWIM).....we had lots of problems with one child fighting, for example. It took a lot of tact to deal with that one, as his mother basically used the session as a chance to unwind and did nothing with her son at all.

Could she come to an agreement with the playgroup that the first yell=warning second yell -time out, third yell = home.

that way the girl will learn that yelling isn't ok, the playgroup will be happy that something is being done, and hopefully your mate gets some much needed time with other adults! Its a tough one though

If the screaming is that bad, the parent should refer their child to the GP in the first instance. Tell the GP that the child had been asked to leave the playgroup. The playgroup would not ask the child to leave without good reason - it would make them open to all sorts of actions.

Has your friend had her dd's hearing checked. Partial deafness ( can be for various reasons including severe cold, glue ear etc as well as congenital.) can cause screaming symptoms because the child cannot define pitch well and also it can be frustrating. I would talk to the HV about a test. Also speak to the GP who may do tests for other possible causes.

That's really brilliant, a huge help. I'm going to print all your posts out and send them to her. I think she's been struggling to know what she should do, if anything, and I suspect that she absolutely hates the idea of time out type discipline. I think this will really help her to decide how to handle things.

I'll let you know how she proceeds, and she may even come on here and ask you for more advice herself.

I think the play group have been shabby really, and didn;t give her any notice that there was a problem. If they'd flagged this up ages ago, which they could have done then she may well have started to take steps before things got to this stage.

Many Thanks again

Hmmm I'm not convinced this sounds like a nice playgroup anyway given what you're saying.

I wonder if it had been biting or hitting whether it would have been tolerated better. I remember a while ago posting on here about other kids hitting mine and the response tended towards the 'that's what toddlers do, live with it'. Why would screaming be that much different?

I also feel uncomfortable with such a young child being excluded from a playgroup.

I agree with tori and others; that hearing and or/communication problems may be behind the screaming - and once this girl's communication improves, she'll feel less frustrated and the screaming should hopefully not be an issue.

Beenleigh Sorry for late reply, yes I think if her language isn't great it could well be part of the problem.

I would do two things (if it were me). Firstly get her hearing checked and establish whether her level is speech is 'normal' for her age.

Secondly, when she is screaming (once quietened down) say 'no screaming dd, what is it you want' and encourage her to talk. Every time. This seemed to nip it in the bud for my dd (although she has very good speech now - she is 2) The problem is very common in girls I think, lots of my friend's dds are screamers especially the second siblings! It does tend to get them attention fast so they learn to use it as a technique imo.

I can also understand parent complaining. My dd has sensory issue and loud consistent screaming would be more than she can cope with, and would cause her to meltdown.

Your friends has my sympathies though, this cannot be easy. What has your friend done to tackle it so far?

OK, so this is a zombie thread, I have no idea why andyjg1234 bumped it from almost 10 yrs ago!!

Hopefully she has stopped screaming now she is at secondary school!

seen your other post, Andyjg1234, did you have a nice time on eurostar?

Op, can I ask some questions to clarify some bits?

You're fuming on behalf of your friend, you've put that your friend is upset, is this re the being asked to leave playgroup or the screaming or both?

If this playgroup wasn't linked to a church, would you have been as angry at this happening or not?

Your friend has been ignoring the screaming, so likely to other parents they aren't 'seeing' any action being taken, does your friend agree that this may have looked like what has happened to other parents at the playgroup?

Are you 100% sure / your friend 100% sure no one has tried to drop any gentle hints / suggestions /comments re her dc? Eg helper asking if they've had a busy morning (ie trying to hint is anything wrong that has caused dc to be upset?)

Has the number of parents dropped in any way that may be attributed to your friend's dc? (just asking as near us there would be 2 or 3 playgroups happening so you could take your pick as to which to , possibly parents have not been happy re the screaming and gone to a different playgroup?)

Are parents aware there are no special needs (as yet identified) with your friend's dc? If so, how? Has someone previously spoken to her to get this information? If so, what conversation has taken place re her dc?

It's a tricky one. It sounds like an informal turn up, cup of tea and chat group rather than a preschool arrangement where staff are responsible for the care of children. If so, it's likely the people running it aren't in a position to guide your friend or have the links that a nursery / sure start / health visitor have to locate or suggest extra support.

Def recommend getting hearing / speech checked out. How does her dcact in different environments/ with other people looking after her?

Oh no, zombied!!! Sorry!

If you just look at it from another angle:
My ds had loads (talking about every 10 days) of ear infections when he was playgroup age (until he had grommets). For about 4-5 of those days he would be okay enough to go out. However they'd damaged part of his ear, can't remember exactly but ENT described it as a "damper" on his ear drum-I think it was a muscle. So if there was a loud noise it was physically painful for him.
We would have had to stop going if there had been a child like the one you describe because of the distress it would have caused him
So we would have effectively been excluded instead.

Aaagghhh! Zomblie effect me like noise too. AAGGHH!!