massive hysterical freaking tantrums - please help me

[ruby7]

this isn't funny - my son i think is going mad. he's having the most vile and frightening tantrums and I don't know what to do. I've tried ignoring, I've tried naughty step, I've tried to understnad, I've tried hugs, and yet morning and night he's screaming and screaming until he's sick and it literally goes on for hours. the neighbours have even been round to see if everything's okay. i want to give him away. i can't stand it.

what can i do to stop them? this is the most miserable time of my life!

I don't know how he can keep it up like this. I'm sitting downstairs while he's upstairs literally thrashing against the walls and it's been going on for 30 minutes!

is he manipulating me? he seems genuinely beside himself though. and if this is what he's like now, what's he going to be like when he's a teenager? I just can't seem to geet him to show me any respect, or to be authoritative. He's 2 yrs and9 months.

Seriously, any advice gratefully gratefullyl received.

Can he be distracted out of them? Stick on his favourite video quite loud, leave a biscuit or something where he can see it, suggest a walk to the park?
What sets him off?

sorry I have a small baby no toddler experience so I can´t help, someone will be along soon I´m sure..is he on his own upstairs?

it's the order of things and routines. he has to have control of everything. refuses to eat unless i feed him, has to take off his clothes himself etc. there is no distracting him. there's absolutely nothing i can do. i'm having to stay in another room to avoid hitting him. i can't bear it

He might have some issues which can be addressed by other wiser MNers. Could you make him a chart which takes him through his day - at x o'clock, we get up, then at x o'clock get dressed etc?

Hi ruby

My ds2 has a few other issues which sometimes cause the tantrums but has in his time and still does have some spectacular tantrums. He is 31/2. How is his speech? How is his understanding? My ds speech has been v. poor although it has been getting better. He doesn't have great understanding so doesn't get sorry or naughty steps (whereas his big brother and little sis do).

He is also very visual so having visual timetables can help - take a few pictures of what is going to happen e.g. getting dressed, going to nursery...chat through them. We have issues with some routine things I have to choose what battles to fight.

Have you had a chat to your hv. She can help you with suggestions or give you some tips on who to chat to. Make sure that you don't keep it all to yourself as it can feel really lonely. It sounds like you are doing an amazing job keeping calm. What does he like doing, can you try and work on one thing at a time. Sometimes for friends I know that supper nanny type stuff works. Personnaly I have struggled to apply it. Being consistant can work.. Also I am not a routine person but having routine does help my ds2.

Spectacular tantrums can be really hard to deal with. Sorry if this a rambly message just wanted you to know that you are not the only one who is going through it and that all sorts of people can help.

Thanks Spacegirl. Right, have calmed down a bit now. Ended up in a sobbing heap on the floor, and DS came over and stopped screaming and said 'sorry Mummy' over and over and wiped my eyes with his towel. Which I suppose is quite sweet but I still can't bear him. Luckily DP came home and took over bedtime story.

I'm worried about consistency. I think I might be a bit shit at that bit. Sometimes I let him eat tea infront of the telly, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I feed him, sometimes I don't (I mean spoonfeed, of course I always feed him ). At the moment it's all about 'doing it himself'. If I so much as undo a button he goes mental. So I don't help him and then he goes mental anyway. I ask him to brush his teeth, he loses it. So I say, 'okay, forget it' and then he loses it again and starts screaming about how he wants to brush his teeth.

Am terrified he's going to turn out like those ASBOesque teenagers in the Guardian column. Feeling a bit weak and pathetic!

But these tantrums are terrifying. Only started in the last week and they're totally out of all control. God knows what the neighbours must think - we've only just moved in!

A plan of the day sounds like quite a good idea, but I think he's lose it because he's not in control...

And I don't have a health visitor. Can I apply for one?!!

My DP says we need to start smacking him as he doesn't seem to have any concept of authority or any boundaries. I'm loathe to hit my little boy but I could feel it coming today. Maybe it is the 'right' thing to do...? OH GOD

please don't smack him. he doesn't need discipline - he isn't doing this to be 'naughty'. and also tell dh that respect is earned you can not make it happen through force or fear.

okay rant over ... advice ...

You have answered your own question, routine helps and a visual routine is great for under 3's.

Also give lots of opportunity for him to choose - but with both choices being an acceptable outcome - eg would you like to wear the blue top or the red top?

Ignore the tantrums as best you can - just walk away. If he comes to you say in a really boring monotone voice 'when you are calm'.

Praise him lots - when my ds is being really trying and there is little to praise I actually make stuff up - this sounds weird I know but say he empties the bookcase, I say "oh ds thankyou for taking the books off the bookcase we need to polish it don't we right now we can put them back - you are a lovely helpfull boy today" .

Also count down or give notice of the next event... eg in 5 mins we are going to put our coats on (ideally show picture on schedule poster). It doesn;t matter if he doesn't know how long 5 mins is. Also if not doing as asked I say "I going to count to 3 and if you haven't done I will , one... two...

At the end of every day tell him all the 'good boy' things he did today ... you may need to be creative here to start with, I did .

children tend to have tantrums for the same reason grown ups do - they feel they are not being heard
I have 3 boys and my youngest is just coming up to 2
1/2. Found 'how to talk to kids' by faber mazlish changed our lives and also advice I was once given about treating a toddler like a confused auntie with alzhiemers - just keep talking kindly, gently but firmly (without any judgement in voice) to them explaining everything and model the behaviour you want them to copy - rather like Gandhi's statement 'Be the change you want to see in the world'.
Another thing someone once said is that children hold up a mirror to our own behaviour, and we are their whole world, at this stage they are desperately trying to make sense of the world - you have to teach them how to manage their emotions and give each feeling a name, allow them as much independence as you can - slow right down and try going at their pace - let them put their boots/coats on, if things start getting tricky use humour or explain, or failing that water has been the best thing to help calm mine down, either baths or washing cups for hours
just try and slow down and be kind to yourself - happy mummy = happy children, not the other way around as I thought for the first few years of having children!
Take care x

Ruby

I have always had a health visitor attatched to the Dr's surgery I attend. She has had many moments of not being helpful but has really come through when I have been desperate for help. Maybe ask your Dr's surgery or you could ask NHS direct how to get hold of one. Who does your developmental checks for your ds? Sometimes there are parent courses around, our local toddlers held one. Can have lots of people who are empathising with you and giving tips! It sounds like you have a bright little boy, who is sensitive. Also some flexibility is fine - don't try and do to much. Could you think of something fun to do where he can be a big boy? Washing dishes (plastic), helping you clean, helping you to make his food and yours. Do funny stuff together. Maybe you could look in the library for some toddler taming type books and borrow some of the ideas you like.

It is hard to feel like you are not in control. With what you said then he is more like my elder son. Maybe it is in the family! He is 5 now and still thinks he is beyond his years! But to reassure you he has calmed down since school and is lovely. Still pushes boundaries though! He had epic tantrums at times, he would wet himself during time outs.

Maybe you could allow more time for him to be a big boy, very frustrating when you need to go out and they are fiddling around trying to do stuff for yourself. A reward chart worked but I used it in short bursts for certain things I wanted to tackle. Tackle one thing at a time.

I have had many failures but it is easier looking backwards (always new stuff to deal with, different stuff works at different times). Still in the midst of it with my ds2 who is another case all together. Disciplne wise you have to do what is right for you and your son. My dh and me have very different approaches and both can work if your motivation is for our childrens best. It is when we loose control it is harder. My dh is probably more similar in thoughts to yours.

lol

2nd 'how to talk' there is a great thread on here where lots of mnetters tried it out - it is actually quite good fun to talk how they recommend and surprisingly effective even on 2 yr olds!

Have you tried asking him to tell you whats wrong? Might seem obvious but sometimes when its happening we can forget this angle. Is his speech ok? No hearing problems? It sounds like he is frustrated. Also how long have you tried each approach, consistency is important. If the goal posts keep changing he will keep pushing you. If he really can't tolerate changes in routine this could be the start of ASD, however, the independent phase is how toddlers learn and assert themselves and is completely normal.
Feeding wise, if he is able to self feed then I would put the plate in front of him, say here is your lunch etc, eat it up please. If he doesn't eat it then remove it to the bin. Give nothing until the next meal. Believe me he will start to feed himself or he will be very hungry for a few days! He will not starve!.

my ds1's nursery teacher told me a few years ago there is no such thing as a naughty child - I understand how you feel, but have stopped myself with the thought that I really don't want this to pass down to the next generation and think how I would feel seeing my great grandchildren being smacked as the parents didn't know any other way.

he sounds incredibly bright and he just wants to work out how the world works, whether its brushing his teeth or undoing a button. have you thought of letting him brush your teeth at same time?

sorry - if post sounds preachy - 2 out of 3 still awake and these days I don't have very much time for chat. this happens in real life too - i end up talking at 100 mph as i tend to get called away by one of my tribe!
ds3 has got up - have to go
x

you said you've just moved in, that in itself could have really unsettled him and have added to suddenly having very strong reactions to little stuff.

Lots of good advice from others though!

hi ruby7 - you say you've only just moved house, so perhaps the move has set this all off ? I know when we moved house when dd1 was just gone 3, we had some of the worst tantrums we've ever had from her. All I can say is what I've learnt from my own kids is ignore, ignore, ignore, and then cuddle, etc when he's calmed down - Consistentcy could also be the key here, perhaps he's a child who does need things to be the same every day, even things he dislikes, as he will know what to expect and be prepared for. When he insists on doing things himself, however frustrating this can sometimes be, I would just praise his efforts and his eagerness to try, meanwhile talking over and ignoring if he goes mental - definitely don't smack, it will just confuse and frighten him and make him think he is a bad boy - he's not, he's just angry and confused at the moment and at his young age cannot express such feelings in any other way. Good luck!

PS just to reiterate that smacking is not the answer. If children see their role models getting what they want through smacking, they are more likely to smack others themselves.

My parents used to smack me, sometimes really hard, but I have never smacked my children. It doesn't necessarily follow .

thanks so much everyone for your advice. i'm so knackered when i get home from work i obviously don't do things as patiently and kindly and understandingly (!) as i should/could.

i really don't want to smack - it's a horrible thing. but i could feel it coming last night and it's scared me. but i won't. because i wouldn't be able to live with myself.

i have tried everything - asking what's wrong, ignoring, cuddling, trying to label his feelings, etc etc, and nothing works. he just screams and screams and he hits me!

i think i'm doing it all wrong. i have told him he's being a naughty boy, but that's obviously a bad thing to say to him. i couldn't even put him to bed last night and i didn't say goodnight. feel horribly guilty!

but having said that, he sometimes goes mental first thing in the morning before anything has even been said or done!

i'm not sure i agree with that 'no such thing as a naughty child' thing. aren't they supposed to be manipulating us into getting what they want?!?

i think i'm coming across as a horrible mummy. i'm not, i promise!

ruby, one of my twins is exactly like this and he is 3 in december, so almost bang on the same age. Everything is a battle - he wakes up in a bad mood, if DH goes in to see him 'no, no,no, mummy do it...' if I go in 'no, no, no, daddy do it....' and from then on in everything is 'no, i do it...' like brushing his teeth, even down to who turns the tap on - if the tap is already on because I have brushed my teeth, i have to turn it off and let him turn it on for himself....

It is incredibly frustrating when you just want to get them dressed and out the door to nursery.

At the weekends when we have all the time in the world, I let him do everything his way and he is a different boy, he loves helping me, loves getting praise, so I think during the week he is just completely bewildered as to why he can't do it all himself, that doesn't help me keep my cool, though, when i am running late and he wants to open the car door, put the keys in the ignition and climb over into his car seat 'all by MYSELF, mummy'.

In summary i think what I am trying to say is, it's a phase! Hopefully one that will pass, but what is also weird is that his Twin is nothing like this....big sigh!

I think you have to start the day expecting resistance, and just as much as you can let him do the tasks that don't take long and praise massively when he does them well and never let yourself loose it as it just esculates if mummy is out of control too.

oh and we have the naughty spot, which only works when you have HOURS to keep putting them back on it, but it helps me keep cool as I am not fighting with him - I am just replacing him over and over - he eventually gets bored, does his time and then says sorry.