Four going on fourteen

[puddle]

Can anyone reassure me that recent changes in my ds ae due to the fabled hormone surge at 4? Recently I've been wondering where my beautifully behaved boy has gone. He's very unco-operative, refusing to do things I ask him and running off. Deliberately winding up his sister and hitting her (me: 'why did you do that? ds: because I don't like her...")Pinched me yesterday (really hard too) because we had to leave a friends house. He's just started school, so that is probably a factor too, along with being tired .

We've tried star charts and they seem to work a bit but only for specific tasks - eg for getting dressed on his own, going into school nicely etc. Have tried the pasta jar tip but he just says 'I don't care' when I threaten to take a piece away (ditto favourite toy.)We have done time out on the stairs but TBH it seems like water off a ducks back with him - it doesn't seem to bother him at all. Last night I sat down with him and we made a list together of things that he could do when he's really really cross (other than pinching me!)

Would hate you to think he's out of control - he really isn't. But I don't want it to get to that stage and sometimes I look at him and have no idea what to do. I feel that our ways of dealing with his behaviour have outlived their usefulness and we do need some ways of getting him to behave. Sometimes he just gets a look on his face and I know I'm in for half an hour of defiance, teasing his sister etc.

bump - anyone?

hopefully it a just a phase, probably a response to the new challenges of starting school and being exhausted.

All you can do is try and be patient and keep open the communication lines - give him every chance to tell you what is going on in his head.

Could be school more than hormones, puddle. Half term is coming up but it's a long time coming for the little ones in their first year. He may well calm down and relax over that week, and after that they get into preparation for Christmas quite soon which is nice and distracting.

If sticks don't work (ie pasta jar) have you tried carrots? If he can go a whole week without pinching he can have something he really really wants; and then any time he looks like pinching (I'm hoping it's just you he's doing it to?) you can say the name of the thing in a Very Meaningful Way?

Anyway, FWIW, you might as well get used to "it's just a phase" - DS2 is 11 and we had a very stroppy few weeks with him in September. He changed schools this year, I have no idea if that had anything to do with it but he was snotty and distant and unaffectionate and "leave me alone" - I was wondering about puberty (those darned hormones!) but now he is back to his usual fairly sunny mostly pleasant self again. I'm sure yours will too.

Puddle

Its quite a long way down know, but you might like to look at "desperate for advice, out of control nine year old" which is a similar question as yours.

I expect it is just him starting school, it is such a big step. Is he a young four, because mine were and my ds took ages to settle in, then as the end of term approached he would get tired and then be really naughty. Then when he went back it would take over a week to settle in again.
Try to support him and reassure him you love him, its hard when they are being naughty, but he probably feels a little bit out of his depth. My ds is very much the same, you can even remove pocket money, the only thing that works is playstation, gameboy or no football, and don't want to take that away as he loves it so much. He is on a gameboy ban at the moment.
At the moment with your ds though, I would carry on as you are - the list sounds good and try to concentrate on the positive like you are doing.

Good luck

My DS1 turned 4 at the beginning of August, and has just started school too. He is also behaving like a stroppy teenager, and I too had been wondering is it school or hormones? We also find it doesn't seem to matter what we do in terms of punishment (taking away toys/TV/time out) he just seems to get more angry and defiant. Am really worried we are starting something and he is just going to end up getting worse. He keeps attacking other kids in the playground, and feels it's acceptable because "they're not my friends" We've tried reasoning with him but it just doesn't seem to go in. It's reassuring to read that it's common for kids to go through this when they start school. It does concern me that we are expecting too much of him, to fit into a structured school environment when he's so young, but feel helpless to do much else except wait for it to pass.
Sorry I haven't offered you any advice, but just wanted to let you know you're not the only one!

Thanks for these replies and for the link KKgirl. He's not particularly a young 4 in behaviour although he is a March birthday. I was particularly struck by kkgirl saying that he probably feels a bit out of his depth - I think that's right. I think you're all right with the 'hang in there' advice but I find it so hard - he's obviously pushing me to get a reaction and it's blooming hard sometimes to keep neutral!

nicmum - have just read your post and v pleased to hear you are going through a similar thing! I guess I am worried my ds will start acting up or being aggressive at school but no sign of that so far - in fact he tells me he doesn't play with certain boys because 'they are too rough'. Sometimes I think he's so exhausted by being good all the time at school (and also two nights after school a week) that when he's at home he just relaxes into naughtiness! Other times I think he's being difficult with me because he's growing away from me and resents my 'being in charge' at home. Don't know! I think that we are where you are in terms of sanctions - it just seems to be making things worse which is why I'm trying to change approach and be more positive and try and talk him through things a bit more (hence last night's list!) I'm reading 'How to talk so your children will listen and listen so your children will talk' which is great on trying to develop the communication with your child - part of it is developing your child's independence which I think my son needs now.

Funnily enough I have that book on my book shelf, but haven't got round to reading it yet (too much lurking on mumsnet!). I have got it down and will give it a go. I think you're right about them needing independance, it's almost as if he feels he can't control, or isn't responsible for controlling his emotions. Whilst I don't want him to bottle things up, I do want him to learn to express himself in an acceptable way. I've just kind of lost the plot on how to teach him to do that! Hopefully the book will point me in the right direction, thanks for the tip.

Puddle

I know what you mean about it being hard to stay calm, it is really hard. I have found with my ds2 that he knows what will wind me up and when, and its like a battle that can escalate from something so small. I have found that ignoring him, trying to inject humour into the situation to distract him out of it (that look on the face, I know that one so well) or if those strategies don't work, I warn him and then calmy tell him what he has lost. He realises then that he needs to behave.

Hope this is helpful, but it is reassuring to find other people are dealing with the same issues and you can support each other. I have found Mumsnet really good for support and encouraging and that fact that no one knows me makes it easier to rant on and on and get it off your chest.

I was going to start a thread on this tonight ... and might still do so yet. Ds2's teacher has 'had words' on 3 out of the last 4 school days . Today she said "He doesn't speak to me like a 5-yr-old, he speaks to me like a stroppy teenager. He's argumentative, he answers back, and he always has an excuse for everything."

He speaks to me like that too, doesn't respond to carrots or sticks at the moment, (likes carrots, but they don't actually motivate him to change his behaviour), and he is incredibly stubborn.

Anyone got any suggestions?

I'm being a bit lighthearted about this, but that's not really how I'm feeling. At this stage (4 wks into yr1) ds1 was by far the most challenging child in the class (though in different ways). I just didn't expect to go through this all again with ds2 as he is so different.

Roisin - I'm all out of ideas! See original post...but sorry you're feeling down about it all.

Thanks Puddle - I did post another thread about it, and had some helpful responses. Don't know if any of it is helpful to you, but it's here anyway

Hope you have a good day tomorrow. I'm off to bed now, and will start tomorrow afresh waving big carrots and big sticks, and see if his teacher will greet me with a smile at 3.15!