Help! What are the best strategies when child is hurting me

[Pancakes28]

Hi everyone,

My beautiful almost 5 year old has always had a ‘bit of a temper.’ Before she could speak, she would sometimes become frustrated about something and then bite the nearest person as hard as she could. Both myself and her nursery put it down to feelings of frustration that she couldn’t process fully or articulate so resorted to biting to ‘get it out of her system.’

Ever since then, a few times a month she would become angry about a situation that usually would be fine by her, and then lash out at me. Hitting, kicking biting, throwing things at me and so on. For example, as bedtime approaches, we’ve always had the same routine of me letting her know 20 mins before, 10 mins before, 5 mins before and then go into her bedroom and read a couple of stories, have a cuddle, sing etc then she lays down. Between 2 and 4, a few times a month, being told it was 20 mins before bedtime would provoke the anger and rage. I spoke with our GP who said it was normal for toddler temper tantrums, and advised me to speak to the HV for advice on what to do. Their advice was what I’d already been doing- telling her she cannot insert aggressive behaviour and staying calmly with her whilst protecting myself from being hurt. They said that at her age, distraction, extra love in that moment and so on was the best method.

Fast forward to now, and she’s 5 at the end of the month. Over the course of the last 6 months, the tantrums/incidents have become daily, sometimes multiple times a day, last longer, are more aggressive and louder etc. I’ve tried time in and trying to meet her emotional need in those moments instead of standard discipline. 2 weeks of that had a worse effect. She would start smirking whilst I was telling her I would love to have a cuddle if she needs one etc and ramp up the behaviour.

I’ve tried being stern, giving a warning and an immediate consequence should it continue and then following through on that. Removing any privileges had no baring on the behaviour calming down.

I’ve tried time out/naughty step but upon struggling whilst being taken to the naughty step, she’d never sit still and would lash out worse and then run up and down the stairs as fast as she possibly could in a dangerous way. Short of physically restraining (I tried to do it gently but she’s so powerful when acting like this that if I used more strength, it would have hurt her) there would be no way to keep her on the naughty step.

Time out in her room- everything gets trashed or broken when she finally stays in her room for the 5 mins to start. Prior to that, it’s door opening and slamming (she caught her big toe twice previously doing this and really hurt herself pulling half the nail off but still doesn’t deter her from risking that again)
Occasionally, she’ll come with me to her room to begin time out and act as though she is going to do it, so the first time that happened I went back downstairs and said I’d come and speak with her in 5. When I went up and was praising her for staying on time out so well and was about to have a conversation about how she was feeling during the naughty behaviour that warranted time out, I noticed a tube of my moisturiser in her bedroom floor. It turned out she’d snook across the hall to my room and emptied moisturiser onto my duvet, pillows, bottom sheet and carpet.

Bedtimes are especially hard. She spits in my face, throws at me and so on. I always follow through on mummy leaving the room if this continues but if I leave the room, she jumps up and down on her mid sleeper bed or says that unless I let her do such and such, she’ll jump off the bed to hurt herself. I called her bluff and after saying you had your warning, you’ve continued so mummy is going. If you can lie down quietly and calmly, I can come back to complete the rest of bedtime. If you want to hurt yourself on purpose go ahead. But I wouldn’t like you to be hurt. After leaving the room, she jumped and landed on her hands and knees. No injuries but obviously sore.
After that incident, I continued to warn once that if she spat in my face or hurt me, I wouldn’t be able to stay in the room because I couldn’t allow myself to be hurt. I’ve tried all kinds of things after that. Sitting at the top of the stairs (where she’ll run up and kick me) and then silently escorting her back to bed (whilst she claws at my neck and back) over and over for the several hours she will keep leaving the room.
I’ve tried going downstairs and refusing to take her back up at all telling her she’ll have to put herself to bed, hoping that a week of that would result in wanting our nice bedtime with stories and singing so not messing any longer. I’ve tried sitting on her bedroom floor and trying to validate her emotions whilst she behaves aggressively towards me.

When she’s calm, we’ve spoken about anger. I’ve read so many children’s books to her about processing anger and emotions etc. I’ve told her it’s normal to feel anger sometimes but let’s decide together what you’ll do or what I can help you do when you start to feel angry. I’ve asked her what she thinks an appropriate consequence would be if she hurts me. When talking about the things she does to me, she gets so upset and wants to be close to me and says she doesn’t want mummy to be hurt, she’ll never do it again and everything about her demeanour would suggest she truly means it when she says she’s sorry she doesn’t want to hurt me and won’t again etc. But it’s never very long until it happens again.

We can have the nicest time ever together and then something will set her off. I’ve tried to work out with her what the unmet need could be. It isn’t a case of her acting like that for negative attention because that’s better than no attention because she gets plenty of positive attention. When she isn’t being aggressive, she’s so loving towards me, she tells me I’m her best friend and the best mummy ever and so on. I feel awful for her because it can’t be easy being so angry so regularly and I want to help her more than anything. But I’m so stressed by it all now that I find myself waiting for the next episode and dreading spending bedtimes with her. Whereas before this got worse 6 months ago, I used to really look forward to reading books to her, having a cuddle and singing etc before she got into bed and drifted off. It was my favourite part of the day. But now it fills me with anxiety. I’m not sleeping well because I’m constantly worried and then feel instant dread when I wake up in the morning scared about what will happen that day. I’ve spoken with her school and they were so shocked because she’s an angel there.

Ultimately I’m after some advice, or better strategies to use when she’s angry (I’ve tried to identify patterns and triggers but there doesn’t seem to be any), any tips to help my daughter and in turn me. Thank you

Bumping for you.

I don’t have any particular advice as it sounds like you could benefit from a professional opinion. Can you contact your local SureStart children’s centre - they have Family Support Workers and they should be able to thoroughly discuss your concerns and some behaviour and discipline strategies to try?

I’d also suggest moving this thread to Chat as there is much more traffic on there.

My daughter is 5 and she is exactly the same, it's always at bedtime and I feel like I've tried everything. I just came into this app to find answers as I'm at my wits end. The only thing that sometimes works is if I remove myself from the situation by sitting in the car where she can't get to me (my husband is inside with her and she isn't aggressive with him) when I come back she's normally calmer and on the occasion where I have got upset and she's seen me cry this has stopped her lashing out too but I feel like I need a solution to the aggressive behaviour.

My ds (nearly 5) does this perhaps once or twice a month, usually when tired and thwarted! I carry him to his room with arms and legs facing away from me so he can’t kick or hit me! I keep his room tidy, organised and minimalist and (as I know he is likely to trash his room) I quickly remove his toy box of cars and duplo leaving his cuddly toys and books. This means if he does throw things, it will cause minimal damage. I leave the room but stay nearby, so whilst I’m not giving him attention for negative behaviour, he doesn’t feel abandoned.

After a few minutes, I ask if he ready for mummy to return and he usually says yes. If not, I wait a bit longer. When he has calmed, there is usually a huge mess (including empty clothes drawers) which we clear up together. He does most of it, but I do help. Afterwards, we have a cuddle and he always says sorry. It’s really hard for some little ones to manage such big emotions. We talk about his strong feelings and how he could manage them differently next time - maybe running in the garden or hitting a cushion or throwing bean bags. He isn’t able to do any of these things yet when in the moment, but hopefully will learn in time.

It sounds like you are a lovely caring mum and staying calm and tapping into her strong emotions will pay dividends in the long run x

That sounds very stressful. As pp said, you sound like a caring Mum who is doing the right things. And few "normal temper tantrums" at three does start to look like something that could need looking into if it's getting so much more frequent at 5.

Rather than trying to fix the behaviour (the aggression) you do need to look extra hard at what the triggers are and maybe get some professional investigation into what the underlying causes could be. Your lovely DD gets irrationally enraged about something, and by the sound of things once she gets into that state nothing anyone can do will get her out of it again. It may be a case of battening down the hatches and keeping everyone more or less safe until the storm passes.

You've identified bedtime as one of her triggers - maybe make an actual list or diary of the different situations where she flies off and then see if you can spot any patterns. The trigger is not necessarily an unmet emotional need. It could be a sensory problem (my DS would react to an unexpected touch as if he was being attacked) Or it could be a disorganised mental process, maybe due to being worn out at the end of the day. It's probably not a coincidence that things have got worse now she has started school. Her perfect behaviour in school may come at a huge cost out of school. Being perfect all day is draining and maybe she just has nothing left by bedtime. Maybe that final "demand" on her energy to get ready for bed is just the last straw. Or she could have some kind of anxiety issue, anxiety is a huge trigger for tantrums and not always in an obvious way. It builds up and builds up til a rage attack is just a kind of relief. Then the questions becomes what is it about her life - maybe about school - that is making her so tired or anxious? How does she get on with other children?

One more strategy to try is that when she is finally calm you carry on the bedtime routine (or whatever you were doing) as if nothing had happened. It sounds as if she hates the rage attacks as much as you do, and she certainly can't stop herself having them. So you don't refer to it, let it be over and done. Don't discuss her behaviour or its causes afterwards, that may be re-igniting the fire or adding fuel for next time, (especially if she does have anxiety issus) When she stops decide that it's over and move on. Let her enjoy the calm.

If it's happening several times a day then it's worth going back to your GP or health visitor. The diary would also come in useful to show them.