Dummy addiction

[Emmam]

Kmg - how are you doing? I missed your posting a couple of weeks again about your youngest not sleeping. Did you manage to sort it out? How is the dummy thing going too?

If you've cracked the dummy then how about trying him in a bed? Maybe it would help him sleep if he thought he was going in a bed just like his big brother? I don't know what the age difference is, but could you treat them the same when going to bed now? Put them both to bed at the same time and read a story to them both. If his older brother sets a good example about going to bed then he might follow suit. This may take a few days to get used to a change in routine, but would it help at all?

In my experience any changes involving sleep training have taken around 5 days.

Let me know how you are doing anyway.

Thanks for your concern Emmam. The dummy is well and truly behind us, and I am delighted that it was so easy. He is still sleeping badly though - wakes up usually once a night, and unless we take him out of the cot and downstairs he screams until his brother wakes up. But he soon settles back to sleep, so it doesn't take long ....

I'm reluctant to put him in a bed, though we do now have one for him - we've got bunks up. He is keen to go in a bed, but I think they are so much easier in a cot, when you know where they are. He may sleep better in a bed, but then again he may not, and it strikes me that's one decision that it is hard to go back on. Does anyone have an experience of this?

Bedtime isn't a problem - they go to sleep like angels, and have done for ages, (they are so shattered by bedtime). It's the middle of the night that's the problem.

I'm glad you cracked the dummy, sorry to hear about the sleeping though - its hell having your nights interrupted, however short.

We put our son in a bed just over a week ago (he's 23 months) and I must say it wasn't as much hassle as I thought it was going to be. The first night I anticipated him getting out and turning up in our room in the middle of the night, so I put the stair gate over his bedroom door. It took a while for him to settle down, but he slept and he stayed in it. He was up in the middle of the night, but again, he didn't make any attempt to get out and soon settled down again. The following morning he actually asked if he could get down and waited until I had said yes before he did. We had one really bad night where he would not lie down and I'm afraid I did loose my temper with him, but since then he now sleeps just like he did in his cot - but with less banging into the sides! He has slept more soundly I've found and slept in longer in the morning - and the amazing thing is, he still won't get out of his bed until he has `permission'! My other fear was that he would fall out, but again, that just hasn't happened (yet).

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful with the night time waking, just offer my sympathies and keep my fingers crossed that this phase is soon over. And as for the bed decision, well, I did have similar anxieties and fortunately they were unfounded.

Best of luck with whatever you decide and here's to a good nights sleep very soon.

Help - some advice please.

I weaned my 26 month old son off his dummy last Monday and he has been fine without it when he goes to sleep. The problem seems to be when he wakes up in the morning. Before, when he woke up at about 6am it would be because he had lost his dummy so we would go in and give it to him and he would be fine until we would get him up at about 7am. Now he wakes up at 6am and screams his head off until we can't stand it anymore and have to get him up. He doesn't cry in the normal way it is like he is making the worst noise he can so as to attract our attention. I am worried that getting him up earlier will become a new routine for him and we will not be able to get him to settle by himself. Do you think he is ready for a proper bed so that he can get out by himself and entertain himself in his room?

I have also noticed that over the last few days he has been unusually clingy, especially when dropping him off at nursery in the morning. Before he would be quite happy about being left but recently (not exactly since he has not had the dummy but a few days later) he has started hanging on to my legs and asking to be picked up and generally getting quite whingy - this last one has been happening at home as well. Is this because of the dummy thing? Why should this happen now?

Sorry for all the questions but I am at a loss to explain this sudden change in behaviour, especially as he would only have his dummy when he went to bed, not for general use.

Hi Debster - poor you, sounds very stressful. I think maybe that although your son has got used to going to sleep without his dummy he's now got to get used to dropping off again without it. We had something very similar, but ours was more in the middle of the night. The only thing I can suggest is that you try the `sleep training' routine to get him used to the idea that when he wakes up at 6.00 am he's got to go back off to sleep again alone. This may mean a good few early mornings of crying and screaming.

The other thing that does occur to me is whether he is teething? The last big back molars come through around 2/2½ - could that be what is upsetting him? I only ask because our son (2 in a fortnight) is getting his teeth come through, he too has been miserable and clingy and, unusually, has been getting us up in the middle of the night. I noticed his gums are looking very stretched and the points of a molar are ready to break through on one side.

It is always very rough when a change to normal routine or a change in behaviour happens, but it really doesn't last long. You've just got to persevere. It sounds like you've done great getting him off the dummy, so hang in there, you know you can change things for the better.

Thanks for the reply Emmam.

My partner and I were starting to suspect it was his back teeth as he has been stuffing his fist in his mouth alot although I can't see anything unusual as he won't let me look in his mouth! I gave him bonjela last night but I'm not sure whether this is what he needs. Do you, or does anyone, know how those homeopathic teething mineral salts (available in Holland & Barratt)work? Would they be 'strong' enough? We got some as they use them at the nursery but I don't understand what they are supposed to do.

With regard to waking up earlier I put a few of his favourite toys in his cot with him and this morning he lasted until about 6.30am!! Believe it or not this is an improvement. I really do think he might be ready for a proper bed but am loathe to introduce him to one whilst he is having the other problems.

By the way did anyone else get loads of snow yesterday? Can you believe it is almost April?!

That's what our son was doing - chewing his hand, he's also been rubbing his ear alot. It was only at the weekend I noticed the molar points. I've tried the homeopathic granules in the past - he seemed to like them and settled again, but I didn't use them a great deal. I was never sure if they worked or not. If he's been really miserable with teething I've given a tiny dose of Calpol just to take the edge off any pain.

Glad to hear you got an extra half hour in bed this morning.

We only got about an inch of snow and its fast melting now. We'll probably have a heat wave next week!

Debster, the active ingredient in the teething granules is chamomilla, the same stuff that goes into herbal teas which aid relaxation and sleep in adults. I don't think it takes the pain away but we used them regularly when our son was teething. He enjoyed the paraphernalia of "eating baby sherbet" and they did seem to help him cope with the discomfort. They also contain xylitol, which is an antibacterial natural substance that is also found in children's toothpastes. (See Robinw's and others' posts on how this substance can also reduce incidence of bacterial ENT infections in susceptible children). All round good stuff, and certainly not going to cause harm.
Hope he continues to settle better and longer in the mornings.

My 26 month old son still uses his dummy for the car and to go to bed with, although he also has it some days (but never at the 3 days he is at nursery). I was really keen to wean him off the habit before he was 2, but decided to leave it as we are living with friends - hence not easy to let him cry himself back to sleep if he wakes up. We are also expecting another baby and are waiting to move into a new house all within the next two months. Given the upheaval I considered it best to leave it. But now I am thinking that to do it now would be better than when the new baby is here. Also I am encouraged by some of your successes.

Then again, I have noticed that occasionally he gets frustrated with the dummy and throws it across the room. This leads me to think maybe he will kick the habit himself in time. I'm a bit confused (as you can tell) about what to do - any advice?

Sparrow - what with new baby and moving upheavals I'd be inclined to leave the dummy for a little too. If he doesn't have it during the day at nursery then he doesn't need it with you during the day (although I know that sometimes when they are whingy its easier to let them have it) and so be firm about day time use, but let him have it at night and in the car as you normally do. If you take it away from him now and then new baby has one then you'll probably find he'll pinch it off of him/her. (Seen the evidence with my sister's 2½ year old and her 10 month old, but on a positive note, he is showing signs of being ready to give up his dummy by himself now.)

Once the new baby has arrived and you are settled in your house then you can think about taking it away. Chances are what with being that little bit older too he might be more willing to give it up anyway. Lots of children seem happy to throw their dummies away when they turn 3.

Don't feel under pressure to get your son to give up his dummy. Sounds like you've got enough on your plate at present.

Emmam - thank you so much for replying. I have never used a chat room before, but Mumsnet must be really helping loads of mums. I am ever so confident about the decisions I make at work - why is it then I question myself so much when it comes to my child?! I will wait until things settle a bit before I tackle the dummy, afterall, if it was a comfort blanket or teddy, I wouldn't be thinking about taking it away from him.

Sparrow
In my understanding there are 2 reasons why dummies are'nt ideal...
1.Speech
2.Teeth/mouth
I think that if your child doesn't spend his day with his dummy in his mouth - making it difficult for him to speak properly (and be understood).... and if it isn't hurting the shape of his mouth (what dentists worry about)... then you are all right. Like in everything else, it's a question of common sense.

Reliance on dummies seems to be as individual as the child. My oldest was really reliant on his when he was tired and at night, so one Christmas we told him that Santa collects children's dummies from the fireplace when he eats his mince pie. This was because all the baby elves needed them ( their parents being far toobusy making toys to think about dummies). It (unbelievably!!) worked like a charm! In all the chaos of Christmas day, and his birthday on Boxing Day, the subject came up only in passing and then never again! The second wouldn't even consider a bit of rubber in his mouth and never resorted to his thumb. I have a friend who still (38) sucks her thumb when she's feeling stressed! Honestly, it isn't me

Without pressure from us, our three year old decided to give his dummy to Father Xmas this year. We were so relieved as he has always been so attached to it and totally reliant on it to go to sleep. Everything went smoothly and he went to sleep on Xmas Eve and Xmas day quite easily - but since then its gone rapidly downhill. The only way we can get him to go to sleep now is by putting on a story tape and even then it can take up to 2 hours for him to drop off. He wakes most nights and takes ages to go off again - we try putting story tapes on but these are now not working in the middle of the night - so last night he ended up in the spare room with me having been awake from 1.30-3am. And for the last two nights he has wet the bed after being dry at night for well over two months. Has anyone got any ideas / suggestions of what we can do to get him to go to sleep ( and sleep through) or had similar experiences? I am determined not to re-introduce the dummy again but he is getting so over tired I really need to find a solution to this. I should mention that we also have an 11 month old ( and he sleeps 12 hours a night straight through and does not have a dummy....)

Has he asked for his dummy since ?

Has he asked for his dummy since ?

Perhaps a couple of times but when we remind him that he gave it to Father Christmas he is OK again. Its not as though he is really upset and crying for it each evening..

From what you describe he seems to be upset/insecure about something. Besides the dummy has anything else change since then ? Has he got a new bed ? Has he got a new daytime routine ? Has there been more people into the house recently ?
Does he sleep during the day ?

Leading on from pupace's last question, if he still has a daytime nap, perhaps now is the time to end it? My sons both grew out of theirs around the age of two-and-a-half to three.

When he wakes up, does he ask for anything? Mine ask for water. They usually go down again if they have a sip of water from a beaker. Something they have inherited from their mother - if I wake at night, I simply have to have some water before I can go back to sleep.

Nothing has changed at home - someone said to me that an older child can react to a sibling later on and his brother is now 11 months.. He has not had a day time sleep for several months now and even if he was over tired would only sleep in the day if we were in the car. Its now 8.45pm and he has been in bed for 1.5 hours, still listening to story tapes and wide awake - we've propbably been up about 8 times to him. He just doesn't know how to go to sleep!

It sounds like you might need to take the bull by the horns. I think Christopher Green is good on this topic but I have not read his book. You could look at the Q&As on this site whether he has given suggestions for such problem.
The only trick I use (but I don't have - yet - such an accute problem) is to start slowing the pace of things with DS at 630pm so we read stories or play a game. No more running around (maybe you could give your son a warm milk?). At 715 I tell him that we are going to bed in 5 minutes and I do follow that by taking him upstairs after those 5 minutes. He goes in his bed and I tell him a story (he usually asks for another one but I tend to refuse I don't want to get into the habit of hours of story telling), I then sing 2 or 3 songs but before the last one, I tell him that this is the last one and he must go to bed now. I sing it, I say good bye and I LEAVE the room.
This may be too mild and your son may ne more decisive action.
But he needs to be calm before bedtime and he needs to understand where you set the boundries (obviously you must stick to those otherwise it won't work).
It sounds to me (but that's from what I read so do not take this the wrong way as it is meant that way) as you are not using a firm enough tone.
I have friends who are currently having their 3yo up in the middle of the night... for 3 hours ! I know they feel very annoyed at this but I don't see them as holding firm... so their child knows he can get away with it. Bear in mind that you are not doing this to harm them or upset them.... they need their sleep (as much as you do).

Have just had my first terrible afternoon with 7 month old dd. Decided that she shouldn't have her dummy anymore so stopped using it yesterday. She got off to sleep last night OK with some soothing from me and didn't wake up in the night. However, her afternoon nap today has been nothing short of a disaster. Did the old controlled sleeping technique to try to settle her but she cried herself purple (literally!) and coughed so much she was nearly sick. I was almost in tears myself so gave her the blasted dummy and she fell straight to sleep. It seems so unfair to do this to her when she's been such a good baby and always slept so well. She only usually has the dummy to fall asleep (or sometimes when she's got wind and sucking on it helps her trump!) If I limit its use to just sleep time, it'll be OK won't it? I've just been reading my Christopher Green book whilst sitting on the stairs outside her room but he's not very sympathetic and doesn't seem to like them being used at all. I've had to have a big slice of banana cake to recover!! Please reassure me!

Rachel68, Maybe you are trying too soon. I hate dummies but did try to use them when my two were babies to give myself an easier life. Neither of them got on with them so I gave up! Glad I did after hearing about other peoples problems! Why don't you wait until your daughter is nearer 2, then you might find it easier. You might even be able to bribe her with some banana cake by then!!

Yes, Rachael68 it will be fine. I waited until my son was ready to give up the dummies himself (at around 3.5yo)he gave them up really easily, we went out to the bin and threw them away together, and then went and bought a special present, he has never mentioned them since. I kind of think that if they give comfort then they can't be bad. Like you, I only gave them for sleep and very upset/overtired times. You'll be fine.

Thanx so much for your messages Paula1 and sister. Makes me feel much better!

I agree Racheal68, she's only a bub yet, give it more time...she will either decide on her own to give it up, or you will have to help her at age 2 or 3, but I wouldn't worry about it just yet, it's not worth stressing both you and your dd out over!

The best tactics I have heard for when they are older are hanging it on the Xmas tree on Xmas eve for Santa to give to another baby (when they are old enough to understand about Santa) or making a sneaky deal with a toy store that the child can choose any toy they like (this could be pricey so it depends how desperate you are I guess!) and they can "pay" for it with the dummy. Then obviously you pay for it properly once they are distracted! Both mine hated the dummy so I never used them, BUT I really wish my dd could pay for something with her thumb and give that habit away!