DS is getting out of control and I don't know what else to try with him.......

[zephyrcat]

The background is DS is 3.2, he has always been a very quiet, placid, loving little biy. He was quite ill at the beginning of the year and was in and out of hospital over about 3 months. He made a full recovery and began to be more outgoing and generallly happier. He has started nursery in May but is home for the Summer hols. He has dd1 who's 5.6 and they are very close. He also has dd2 who is 14 who adores him but he doesn't like/won't let near him. I am having baby #4 in a few weeks and Dad has had to give up work temporarily to help me as SPD is very bad. Dad has been a bit OTT with telling him off by shouting/raising voice and we have had a fair few shouty arguments since he's been off work.

DS has started to ignore us when we call him to, say, get dressed or do something. We know he can hear us, he is just choosing to ignore us. We can say his name 100 times times but he just plays as if we aren't there until he gets shouted at. He won't do anything he's told, no matter how simple. We have started a naughty step and have been quite strict with it but he just thinks it's a funny game and it has no affect on him at all. I've just put him on there for picking the cat up by her tail and all he did was laugh.

I'm trying to toilet train him as well because Dad says "He's 3 now he should be done" but he's just not ready - I started once before and it was going ok but it was before he started playing up.

I don't know what else to do to make him listen or how to punish him in a way that will have some sort of affect on his behaviourbefore he hurts a sibling or a pet or simply ends up hurt himself because he is ignoring us.

Is it 'normal' 3 year old boy stuff??

Help!!

** DS is a little boy, not biy and dd2 is 1.4 not 14!!

Forgot as well that he ignores us if we talk to him at the dinner table. No matter what we are asking him there is just no response, but a slight smirk from him where he is doing it deliberately...

I put myu ds on a sticker chart. He got one sticker every time he did soemthing he was asked to do the first time. It took about a week of being very consistent but it turned his behaviour around.

yepyepyep, normal 3 yr old behaviour...lasts till they are 4ish in my experience.

drives you mad doesnt it.

dont be tempted to read too much into it...new baby on way etc etc etc, this is normal healthy 3 year old boy behaviour.
SO

stay calm

give warning....i shall count to 5 and if you havent ......then you will have xxx taken off you.

start stickers for good stuff...then take stickers OFF for horrid stuff.

stick to it

stay calm
banshee does not do any thing, not good.

my ds was difficult from this age until mid fours (when his behaviour was intolerable) school straightened him out and he is adorable now. Just grit your teeth and knuckle down for a tempestuous few months.

With ds I have always been extremely firm-always carried out my threats and never wavered from what behaviour I have expected. It has paid off-but it has been hard work and I have shouted a lot!!! in fact I donot remember a time when I have experienced so much red mist-but it will pass. Just hang in there

When DS did (sometimes still does) the not answering thing at the dinner table I answer for him eg:
Me: 'Would you like jam or honey on your bread'
no answer
Me: 'DS would you like jam or honey on your bread'
no answer
Me: 'Oh, I assume you want your bread plain then' (always choose the option he likes least here)
DS: No, I want jam please

(Well not always the please bit first time round)

Hi Zephrycat how are you long time no see?

This is totally normal behaviourer my ds went through exactly the same at this age & i struggled & found it extremley hard work.

Do you use any kind of charts or anything on him i found this worked with ds we used to have it on the fridge, ds loved this.

Also i used the naughty step as ds got totally out of control, i used it more as time out because he needed to be on his own to think about his actions.

It does get better ds is now 4.11 & is much easier to handle i would say he has been like this the past yr so hold on in there.

Poor you - sounds like you have a lot on your plate. Like dissle said, I wouldn't overanalyse just now as you are dealing with some changes which must be affecting him.

I don't think I'd be trying to toilet train him right now. He's obviously not feeling cooperative and with a new baby on the way it's going to be a lot to deal with. Personally I'd rather have a child in nappies than one who's unreliably trained and having loads of accidents. Who cares if he's over 3? (Show this to you dh). In the country where I live no one even starts with it until 3.

My ds (now 4) was definitely harder work at 3 than at 2. He's a bit easier now but still pushes boundaries all the time. I didn't find reward charts or naughty step particularly helpful. I know some people do but I found it just didn't motivate him. I also have 3 dcs and I think ds (also in the middle) does a lot of his naughty stuff for attention. We do a lot of ignoring smaller things and making sure he has some nice attention when he's playing well. If I have the time to negotiate with him then I do. It's easier now he can talk really well. If we're in a hurry I find that I have to be quite "physical" - I mean taking him around physically by the hand to do the things I want him to do (sit at the table, get his shoes etc etc) all the time giving a commentary on what he's going to do...."now we're going to the table to have dinner", "once shoes are on we're going out" ad nauseum. He seems to take that better than instructions and before he knows it the shoes are on, or whatever.

Hope this helps a bit. Good Luck with the baby.

Definitely the terrible threes and not the terrible twos for many

Thank you all for your replies - computer messed up on me just to add to the day's fun!

It's actually a huge relief to hear that they all do it - not that I wish it on anyone else as it's Hell but you know what I mean!! I think it's hit harder because he's always been so 'perfect' and all of a sudden - monster boy!

What would you do about the step thing and the laughing when we tell him off? He is being quite nasty to the cats and dd2 but he thinks it's all fun and games. Do you think stickers would be harsh/reward enough to work? We have considered doing the toys in the box thing and taking a toy away from him when he is naughty...

Zephyr DS is 3.5 and has been like this for ages and ages [weary]. Getting dressed is always a battle for us. He won;t dress himslef at all although quite capable of pants, trousers & socks, & minimal help required with tops.

What works is doing things like the "How to talk so children will listen" type techniques (Popsycal started a thread recently and Cod did one a few months ago)

Being hugely jolly and encouraging even when you don;t feel like it (think Joyce Grenfell)

Distraction "Oh wow look at that plane just going over here lets just slip this t-shirt on, oh well done, has the plane gone yet?"

Not even MENTIONING getting dressed but just coming and sitting quietly next to him with the clothes and attempting to dress him while playing a fantastically interesting game of trains or whatever.

What never works

Loud voices
Ordering him to do things
Pleading with him to do things
Shouting
Getting cross
Bribery
Threatening negative consequences (he gets very confused by this type of thing)

I do agree also about the potty training. You must wait until you are both ready! Or is your DH volunteering to take the lead on it and do all teh extra washing / cleaning up?!

I think all of these are valid methods - you just have to find what motivates him. I try as much as possible not to get into the confrontational situations (not easy, I know). My ds, for example, is ridiculously motivated by pudding, so he doesn't get it if he mucks about at the table. I still find the consequence has to be almost immediate, otherwise he's forgotten what the reason is, but maybe he just has a particularly crap memory, I don't know.

I agree with you there frayedknot and this was more the way I'd deal with him when it was just me at home. I'll definately have to look for those threads as I think it would bring a more positive response from him. What about when he does need to be told though i.e. picking the cat up by her tail and thinking it's funny. DP's biggest worry is that if he doesn't respect/listen to us at home, if we were out somewhere and he needed to listen for something like running in front of a swing, for example, he will end up in trouble or hurt...

I do have a wicked witch voice which comes out in emergencies. It doesn;t work if I use too often though.