Extreme tantrums

[onthefarm]

Hi, this is the first time I've started a thread and would really appreciate some help. My sil has a 7 yr old son. For a few months he has been having daily tantrums when he doesn't get his way. Sometimes they end with terrible threats. He is starting to imply that he will harm her, or even himself.

I feel this is more than "just a tantrum" and think maybe they need outside help. Would like to know what others think. Thank you.

Ensure that parental reaction to this behaviour is consistent and calm.
Parents should speak to him when he's calm and ask if he is worried about anything.
LOTS of praise for positive behaviour.
Examine his diet VERY closely.
Remove anything that could be stimulating his temper eg: colourings, flavourings, sweeteners.
Consider removing wheat and dairy for a while.

We've been having similar problems (and more) with our son aged 10 for many years now. We've been referred (by a GP) to a child psychologist (which didn't help much - just said he was at the "extreme end of normal") and are now back at another GP, trying to work out a coping strategy. I'm at my wits end with it all, so I sympathise. I'd suggest your SIL starts with her GP - perhaps keeping a diary of events to show to the GP, to give him/her an indication of the lead up, trigger points etc etc. Good luck

Sorry - would have to disagree with earlier post re removing wheat and dairy. On what basis? Removing these things from a childs diet without medical say so is not a good idea imo.

Thanks for the quick reply - his diet is very pure, no wheat or dairy already. I believe has has lots of positive praise, and always has done since he was a baby. It seems unusual to think and say such things.

Hi Paolosgirl - am really sorry to hear you have been having similar problems. My dh and I are finding it deeply upsetting, and can't imagine how you must be feeling. What coping strategies have been suggested to you? What do you say when your son says these things? My sil is finding impossible to stay calm, do ever lose your temper?

paolosgirl, on the basis that we have been through a very similar experience with one of our children, and the root cause turned out to be intolerance and/or allergies to wheat and dairy.

We waited five months for a referral to an NHS dietician, who was virtually useless, and had extremely poor knowledge of food allergies.

Only after a battle did we get referred to a Consultant Paediatrician who specialises in allergies.

There is no risk to the child in removing these foods for a trial period, (or indeed permanently in our case, and calcium can easily be obtained from food sources other than dairy).

I am not sure why you are implying that it would be dangerous to remove wheat - what is there in wheat that is vital to the wellbeing of the human body?

My son was having huge tantrums when he was unhappy at school. We've had none for the entire summer. Is there an underlying cause for him to feel angry/scared/ upset? Even if there is, there may be nothing your SIL can do about that situation. It may be an idea to go to the GP and ask for referal to a pychologist (the waiting list will be long!)
The psychologist we saw has put us on a waiting list for my DS to attend anger management classes.

Delighted you managed to see a Paed. - always a good idea to get an allergy confirmed before removing food groups from a child's diet completely.

Back to the post. Our coping strategies have been lots of praise, star charts, consequences, getting him to count to ten and rewards. We do try and stay calm - difficult when the tempers can last for 2 hours and we're being attacked. What's frustrating is that he is a clever little boy, but we can go through all of the coping strategies - and the next day it's as if it's all a completely new process for him. It's very disrupting for the entire family.

Have you had your son tested for food allergies, paolosgirl?
Your comment "and the next day it's as if it's all a completely new process for him", sounds very reminiscent of how our child was.
When he had a meltdown, it was almost like he was in a fog, and we couldn't quite reach him.

He seems to be a child who does worry a lot, but I don't know what can be done about that. MrsScavo - anger management classes, is that the kind of help you feel he needs?

As I posted earler, I don't think its an allergy as he eats mostly fruit and vegetables.

Paolosgirl, it sounds so hard for you. 2 hours is a long time. If it is any consolation at all, I know it will help my sil to know she is not alone. Is there any one thing that you find the most effective? I will suggest charts, but I imagine when they are in such a temper they don't care much about them. My heart really does go out to you and your family, and thank you so much for taking the time to post.

Not at all, onthefarm. I hope your SIL manages to get help with him. It can be very hard for the entire family. From what you are saying it doesn't sound like an allergy, so I really hope you get to the bottom of it.

We find star charts helpful, along with the counting to 10. I mark 2 stars in different colours on the chart - one for good behaviour and one for any time when he manages to count to ten. Clear, consistent consequences are also helpful, so they know exactly what to expect when.

It's really hard to say what a child needs if you've never met them. I'm just the mum of an 8 year old who loses his temper very easily, and always has done. I do wonder sometimes, if more children than you know are having tantrums behind closed doors. I wonder if it's a bit like bed wetting, smething parents don't want to admit thier older children do.

ds1 and ds3 are nutters on wheat and cows milk (ds1 has SN, but ds3 doesn't). DS1 a headbanging loon on peanuts. neither can tolerate sweetners.

Agree worth looking at diet if tantrums are extreme and involve self injury. DS1 had wheat accidentally the other day and put his head through a window. He gets very screamy on forbidden foods. NHS dietician was useless.

Alos lok at the triggers- ABC the behaviours,

A - antecedents- what happened before
B- behaviour- what does he do
C- conequences- what happens afterwards, might the C be reinforcing the behaviour in some way?

Understanding the triggers is essential in tackling the problem.

If it's only been a few months and he was okay before then something could have 'sparked off' the behaviour. Has he been okay at school on the farm?

I agree, MrsS. I personally feel as if I've failed as a parent, although logic says otherwise as he manages to control his temper outside of the home (or as his school notes 'he is displaying leadership qualities, but need to channel his energies in a more efficient way ). I can't help feeling that perhaps there is a great deal of stigma attached to this issue, which is why it isn't discussed more openly.

Another thought is that some conditions have behaviours that come in 'waves.' Apparently AS is like that. Not suggesting that as a cause obviously as I don't know him!

We have tried 2 different strategies with our ds and they both work. Ds has traits of ADHD and ASD but no dx. However the paed suggested that we use techniques designed to manage this sort of behaviour and he gave us a copy of a treatment plan to use with him.

Its hard work as it involves recognising your own role in the situation as a parent and changing how you deal with situations but we found that it really helped. Its a reward based strategy that inlvoves earning tokens for good behaviour and fines for unacceptable behaviour. If you want i can email you a copy of it.

More recently we have been doing 123 Magic with him as this is what they use at school with him. Basically the idea is that most of the time conflict occurs when a child will either not start a required behaviour or stop an unacceptable one. The parent gives an instruction and if the child doesn't comply then after 5 secs you hold up one finger and say " thats a one". After a further 5 seconds if they still don't comply then you hold up 2 fingers and say "thats a 2". A further 5 seconds and then you hold up 3 fingers and say " thats a three; take a time out". The time out should be one year for every year of their life.

You shouldn't get involved in any other conversation with the child during this time but simply stick to the " thats 1...thats2..etc" There is a book on how to do it and a video which i found really helpful. If we do it consistently it really does work. I can even hold a finger up through the window to ds and he knows what i mean.

I've just thought of something else that seemed to help and thats fish oils. I have no idea why they made a difference but when things really kicked off a couple of years ago when ds started school we gave them a try and within 3 days his tantrums had reduced in frequency and duration. When we go away if i forget to take them his behaviour definitely seems to deteriorate.

That's a loooong time out Dusty

Have to go and do baths but wanted to say "thank you" to you all! I have just read this thread and I now feel greatly relieved that I am not alone in being the parent of an 'extreme tantrum' thrower. DS1 is 5 and has been having corkers since he was 1. They are mercifully less frequent now but are so intense, even over trivial things but mostly when he doesn't get what he wants. He lashes out physically at me and DH and even tries to spit at us (although this is a new trick which I think he has picked up at school). Thank you for starting this thread onthefarm.

lol project icarus

Thanks so much for all the advice - I'm passing on all the info to my sil. Your poor ds gess, I hope his head is ok.I think as cornsilk has suggested, there was a trigger as they started when he was ill at the end of last term and missed the last two weeks of school.

I think my sil is finding it so tough as he only directs these threats to her and so noone else has seen these tantrums.Would love a copy of the treatment plan dustystar. Smugmumofboys, this thread has been great for me too, as have been able to reassure my mil and sil and it means so much to them. Thanks again everyone.

CAT me onthefarm and I will send you it

Agree fish oils worth a try. If he tends to hyperactivity though don't give eye-q, it has too high a content of omega 6's, you need omega 3's. Efalex are a good brand as is nordic naturals (my favourite) although unfortunately they're only available from nutricenter who are a nightmare to deal with!

We use efalex with ds. We buy the big packs from Boots when they have a 3 for 2 offer.