Walking nicely

[bells2]

Help! I have had an upsetting experience with my toddler and Nanny and need some advice. Being on maternity leave, for the first timed I have started going on outings with her during the day. Going to a birthday party last week, I felt unhappy when she took our nearly 2 1/2 year old out of the car and instructed him to stand on the pavement while she got the rest of the things out of the car with her back to him. As it was a quiet road, I didn't say anything. But yesterday, when we went to drop him at Nursery, she did the same thing but this time on a busy road. I was carrying the baby and chatting to another mother when as we were approaching the road, our son ran straight out on to it - mercifully he didn't come to any harm.

When I am out with him, I hold his hand at all times near traffic and when I am unpacking the car, he is the very last thing I remove from the car. I feel at his age he is far too young to be simply told to be careful of cars and instead needs to be physically restrained at all times (either in his pushchair, holding his hand or by reins) to prevent him potentially running out.

After the incident at Nursery, our Nanny could see I was very upset and I made a point of telling her that I think she should have been holding his hand. She didn't apologise and simply said it was the first time he had ever run off. It has left me feeling very upset and given that she will soon have two small children with her I feel we should have a serious word as to what we expect where road safety is concerned. Do you think it is too heavy handed to put a set of rules in writing?. She does not take criticism (real or implied) AT ALL well but to me this is such a serious issue that I want to be crystal clear on it. Do others take a similar view to road safety with toddlers?

This post struck a chord! I am afraid I have got very blase with my daughter (2). She is a very good little girl and understands that cars are dangerous and that she must hold mummy's hand etc etc. I had got into the habit of getting her out of the car and letting her stand by it while I locked up, got my bag out etc. At the back of my mind I always had a niggle...but she seemed so obedient and happy I carried on doing it. Yesterday she saw me getting the buggy out of the back of the car and streaked off across the car park. I ran after her and she just thought the whole thing was a game and hid behind another car. I eventually caught her, luckily the car park was very quiet, but you can imagine how upset and angry with myself I was! Don't think I've quite got over it yet. I wasn't angry with her, just myself. Anyway, needless to say she is now the absolutely last thing that comes out of the car - you never, never know what is going to happen and when your toddler will decide to be unco-operative!

I think you should make very clear to your Nanny what you expect. I would definitely put it in writing and just ignore any implication that you are an overprotective mother.

Bells2 and Enid - My 3 children are always the first 'things' to go into the car and the last 'things' to come out. Similar events have happened to me as to you two, and I can only count my blessings that no one came to any harm, but it makes your blood run cold to think what may have been. It only takes a split second for a tragedy to happen. My eldest is 5 now, and even though he has a pretty good understanding of road safety, I still do not trust him as children do seem to forget things that have been drilled in to them when they get excited, see friends across the road etc.

Bells2, as your children are the most important things in the world to you, you must make it clear to your nanny that she cannot leave your child(ren) unattended/unrestrained at anytime by the side of a road (or anywhere else for that matter!) Put it all down in writing, go through it with her to make sure she understands and both sign it. I really don't think that you are being an over-protective mother, just a sensible, caring one. Don't torture yourself by what could have happened, you are doing the right thing by taking positve action to ensure that this never happens again. Good luck!

Bells2 - I agree with all that has been said - last week my 6 year old was cycling with me on the pavement, stopped to cross the road and cut it very fine. If the brakes hadn't been so good I dread to think what would have happened - and get these horrible flashes through my mind.

The only thing I would say is that when you do write to your nanny (and I absolutely agree that you must - for your own peace of mind and for legal reasons should it happen again and you need to sack her) you could also comment on things that she does that you like, or to say that you are happy with her in general but that events like this current one just are too serious to be overlooked.

Good luck

Bells, I think you are absolutely right to be concerned. My toddler is always the last out and first in the car, if there is no convenient hand-holder around (my 7 year old is very good at this job). I can't leave him unattended in there because he escapes from his car seat. Sigh!

Yes, you should put some rules in writing, but I think you also must witness for yourself that she has broken this dangerous habit - lots and lots of times.

As you are on maternity leave, you'll be going on many more joint outings in the coming months. After you have had a very strong word with her about your safety concerns, and put some ground rules in writing, let her show you she has really taken this on board.

As you'll be holding a tiny baby, her primary responsibility is for your son. Make it really clear that she is responsible for his safety when loading and unloading your car. It is possible that because you are there, she is unconsciously assuming you are watching out for him and she is relieved of her responsiblities, even though your hands are already full. Your son IS her responsibility.

I find that more accidents occur in group situations like this - fingers getting jammed in doors, cups tipping over etc - just because each adult assumes the other is watching a toddler.

Also when it comes to putting safety rules in writing, if you feel this is getting heavy handed, could make safety just one of the things you put on paper - perhaps by writing down your baby daughter's routine or food you would prefer your son to eat as well - and present it as an aide to your nanny?

I also think it would be a very good idea to get your nanny to help write the safety rules with you, discussing and agreeeing on each aspect as you go:

ie if you tell your nanny to leave your son in the car till everything is unloaded, this might raise safety concerns too. Will your nanny walk away from the car for a minute or two to take things into your home? Will she ensure the car door is locked? Can your son escape from his car seat if left unattended? Another danger if this is the case. If she finds herself heavily loaded down and needing to make several trips to and from the car, would it be preferable for her to take in your son, put him somewhere safe, like his cot, and then go back for the loads?

You are right to be concerned, Bells.

I agree with all that has been said, however I am guilty of doing exactly that, and then having 'fun' chasing a toddler around a car park. But the problem comes where you have a habitial 'escapee' from the car seat like mine. I usually get the buggy, baby, and then toddler out of the car, however by the time the baby is in the buggy the toddler has escaped and usually is in the driving seat. I also have the problem that our house is on a main road, and there is no way to stop the toddler between the house and road (well a small front parking space. So what do I do (this is a bit like the old fox, chicken and grain crossing the river question). When I get home, do I take the baby in, leave the toddler in the car while I find somewhere 'safe' for the baby (her cot upstairs), only to find the toddler is now in the front seat and has emptied my handbag all over the car. Or do I take the toddler inside, and go back for the baby,if I shut the door, I then have to juggle keys, baby/bags etc. If I don't shut the door and accidently leave my keys inside she will slam it on me (experince shows!). If I don't shut the door, she could also come out into the road. So I usually get her out, and standing by the front door, get the baby out, and juggle baby, bags, keys, toddler and sometimes dog all at the same time!

I am not trying to make light of the issue, but I can never decide which situation is the worst! I have also never seen what the nanny does, I will have to ask her! - she's so clever at these things, she probably has a better solution than I have thought of!

I'd certainly be upset about this too and agree with the general advice to make it clear to the nanny that this isn't acceptable. When they are a bit older you can copy a trick I learnt from a friend (hands on car) to make them stay by it but it isn't safe with a toddler.

Crunchie, I don't envy you! I have an escapee too, who will get in the driving seat at the drop of a hat, but at least my other son is old enough to have some road sense. It must be awful having a baby and an escaping toddler. Since I found out that my 2 year old can open the car door as well as escape from his seat, I always lock the car the minute I get out.

Bells2 - you know your child best and most mothers here seem to be with you on this. Me too. IMO, 2 is far too young to be left unrestrained on a road and the thing that made my blood run cold about your post was that the nanny said, it was the 'first time' he'd run off - ie. this is her regular routine. If she doesn't appreciate that a two year old can't be relied on like that, then she has a basic lack of understanding that could spread further than just road safety.
I wouldn't even let my rising-five ds do any more than stand right near me on the pavement for a few moments and when I hear cars I glance up to check he's still right there. Usually I aim to put him in first while 2 yo old dd is restrained in buggy. If she's loose then she goes in first and I keep ds right by the car door in my sight. Only last weekend I witnessed my mil letting his hand go on the pavement, at which he began to wander round the back of the car because his seat was on the road side. Needless to say, he doesn't remember to check for cars or keep close to ours. I shouted from the doorway (I was still watching of course!) and dh caught him. Road was quiet. My mil didn't seem to realise what she'd done. I nearly throttled her!

Thanks so much for all the posts. I had a sleepless night over it last night. The mother who also witnessed the incident actually phoned me this morning to say how shocked she was and she completely agreed that a serious talk was needed. We are all geared up to do this on Monday. In the workplace I would have no qualms about speaking my mind but I find it soooo hard to do with our nanny - I guess because I have always tried to establish an equal relationship. It is very reassuring though to hear you all are in agreement. I would never forgive myself if something did happen adn I hadn't said anything.

That's exactly what has upset me so much Inkpen!. Makes me physically ill when I think of it, especially given the extremely busy road on which our car is often parked.

Bells2, I look after a couple of children and still watch the little girl cross the road and she is 8. If she was the age of your son I would not dream of leaving him standing by the road he would be the last out of the car. I can understand how hard it is going to be to bring this to your nannies attention without causing an atmosphere. I am in the opposite boat, I am unhappy with some things, although I have already talked about a couple of things it only changed for about a week. Now I am in the position of do I talk again and risk rocking the boat or leave. Its a shame I dont live in London I would help out any of you at the moment who are unhappy with their childcare.

Bells, this problem really strikes a chord with me as well! I agree with everyone else, 2 is much too young to have any road sense, and you're quite justified in stepping in, but oh god, how do you criticise the child carer?? If you find a way to do this without mortally offending her, please let me know right away! I've tried the most constructive ways possible, (probably totally overdoing it and that's why she gets pissed off!).

It's quite an eye opener when you "eavesdrop" on how your children really spend the day isn't it.

Are there any child carers out there who could say how they would prefer a parent to approach this kind of issue?

Bells - just caught up with this one, wholeheartedly agree that 2 yo cannot be trusted 100% of the time. DD at that age would not listen to sense. I still hold hands with 5yo on busy roads even locally. They will easily be distracted when they see their friends etc across the way. Today is Monday - so how did your talk with the nanny go?

Well I did it and as I suspected she reacted badly. As soon as I raised the subject she said rather aggressively "Are you criticising the way I look after him?". Of course I became pathetically gibbering in my attempt to explain that I was only trying to establish some constructive rules for us all in order to prevent it every happening again.

Anyway at least she is now clear as to the importance of safety and has agreed to use the reins or hold his hand near traffic. I must say though, I feel very upset at her response. I raised the subject as gently as possible but do feel that havong seen my child almost get killed, that I have a right to ensure it doesn't happen again. I echo Sml's comments and would love to hear from child carers out there as to how they would like these problems dealth with.

Well at least you got your point across, Bells. I hope things improve. It does sound really worrying to me that your nanny cannot accept criticism, even of the gentlest sort. Being blunt, who does she think pays her wages?

Is this a problem with many nannies, I wonder. By sharing your home and feeling part of the family, is there a tendency for nannies to feel that they have stepped beyond an employer/emloyee relationship? That old saying 'nanny knows best' springs to mind, too.

Of course childminders and nurseries are not immune from this problem.....

Well said Tigermoth re 'wages'! I'm sorry it didn't go so well for you Bells, but I hope you feel like you have a weight lifted from your mind now knowing you did the right thing for all concerned... I also hope that her reaction was so bad purely for the reason that she felt a bit ashamed about the incident, perhaps? I'm not saying I agree with her comment at all but sometimes first reactions kick in before rational thought has time to catch up so hopefully it was just a blip... Good luck (and lots of hugs for babybells X)

Bells I have just caught up with this thread and am horrified on your behalf.
My immediate reaction, never having met your nanny , is what a complete idiot she is. For her to get huffy and say that was the first time he had run off is beyond belief. It is the potential for danger she has to watch out for. I don't know whether my three year old would stand quietly at the side of the road while I unpacked the car, but I ain't going to take the risk of finding out. To think she did this in front of you - does this worry you at all?I mean in terms of what she would or would not do if you were not present? Sorry if I am overreacting,but I am seriously mad on your behalf.
As for her comment " Are you criticising the way I look after him?" ...er....YES! Big time, you silly girl. Whoops, got a bit carried away there...
Are you happy with the other aspects of her work?

God Bells, only just picked up this thread and feel really sorry for you not only having to witness your son's potentially deathly experience but also having to confront your defensive nanny.
If I was your nanny, I would have been mortified that my employer had seen such an unfortunate incident and would be praying not to see my P45 at breakfast the next morning.
I know you've said that your son is really happy with her in other posts but don't let her take the p* with you. At the end of the day nanny's really are not irreplaceable - your son would be.

Agree totally with all your comments!. Lizzer, I think you are spot on - she is one of these people who become very embarassed and defensive when they know they have something wrong rather than facing up to it openly. And Jasper your post sums up exactly how I feel. We are very happy with her on the whole although do have a few concerns - she is very inflexible, prickly and of course, cannot take criticism but our son loves her. I will be keeping an open mind as to her future.

One thing that bothers me is how replaceable she is - I have just had an 18 year old cousin fron Australia and her friend staying with me. The friend has no childcare experience or qualifications at all and yet had 2 nanny job interviews and got offered both jobs - £250 pw net live in (although admittedly long hours). Our Nanny is the traditional English sort - late 30's, irons our son's pyjamas and relentlessly polishes his shoes etc. Somethimes I think I would rather have a great galumphing 18 year old Aussie instead - then I could just say don't be a bloody idiot and she would take it on the chin!!.

Anyway, thanks for all your posts - I am pathetic in dealing with our Nanny and it was great to know that I was DEFINITELY within my rights to have a serious word.

Bells2, if you are thinking of replacing your Nanny, I put a message under the Childcare Topic about an Australian nanny who is looking for work in the UK in the New Year. If you're interested, maybe you could ask Tech to put you in touch off with me, offlist?

PS I think you're quite right to be concerned. The one thing we can predict about about children is that they will do the unpredictable.

From a personal point of view the only way to be able to talk to your nanny on a work level is to keep the arrangements just that. You get attached to the children you look after but try not to get too friendly with the parents (although I feel Ive done this everything I say is as if I didnt say it) this should then help with open communication. I have no qualifications only a very kiddy sense of fun and humour and experience of being a big sister and mum and sometimes this is all you need.

Crunchie - I'm new to this site so that's why my reply's coming so late. But I do have experience of the 'what to do with the baby while getting everything else' scenario. I live on the 4th floor with no lift so I had to find a way of getting baby, pram and shopping up the stairs before anyone stole any of them from the lobby! I used to bring the baby upstairs and put him in a playpen, or strapped into a baby seat. Could you perhaps place either of these near the front door/window so the maximum time toddler could cause mischief on his own was minimised?

Thanks Mandy! My post was more about the the complications. Theory is fine, but in practice....

I find I do get my toddler out first, if I am not putting the baby in the pram, and then keep her holding the car, and with one eye on her get the baby out!

Also we don't have a playpen and the time it takes to strap a wriggling baby into a baby seat is far too long. The baby is 10 months and also goes up-stairs if she can.

I think it's just a case of too many children/bags/dogs/keys/etc etc and too few arms that every mother has.