How would you have dealt with this- argumentative 6 yo

[mummyrocks1]

Dh says I didn't deal with this very well and ds 6 doesn't seem remotely bothered by the consequences anyway.

Today was the last day I have with ds 6 1-1 before he goes back to school. I asked him what he wanted to do and booked the two activities he wanted to do. The first one was with a friend.

So, ds 6 has marbles which he collects for pocket money. It's pocket money today so I empty marbles out of jar, count how much he has and put marbles back in tub for new week.

Ds had early £2 so I give it to him and say well done but comment to him it's not as much as previous weeks. I ask him how he can get more next week nice and calmly. He says he doesn't know. So I begin to tell him calmly a couple of reasons why he hasn't got so many this week. He instantly interrupts me denying it happened. I reply that it did happen and we both know it did as he had marbles taken out for it. He argues again.

I then go on to say another thing he could do to get more marbles. He moves away from the chair opposite me, rolls his eyes and begins playing a game on the table. I ask him calmly to come back to opposite me, he refuses. I count to 5 for him to come back to him. He refuses, and rolls his eyes again and says I am boring. I admit I did loose it, I take the £2 pocket money and tell him he is to listen to me and apologise to me or we aren't going anywhere.

He cries, goes upstairs to calm down but refuses to apologise. I hold firm and tell him we aren't going out and meeting friend for activity until he apologises. He eventually does but not properly like he means it more because he's been told to and wants to go out. I ask him to tell he why he's apologising to me. He says he doesn't know, I say I can't accept apology until he knows what he's apologising for. This continues. He then says it's for being rude. I say it's also for not listening and answering back.

This then turns into another argument as he argues he is allowed to answer back as I wasn't listening and how else does he get to talk. I tell him that's because I was trying to talk to him about how he could get more marbles and he was denying he had done the things that lost him marble (even though we both know he did) he would not accept that what I said was true and argues again and again that he hadn't done xyz and lost marbles, even though I had seen it with my own eyes. I tell him this annoys people and so they get cross.

I feel forced to go to the first activity as we are meeting a friend and we ve both Pre-paid for it. He continues arguing his point in the car, I am mean as he gets consequences, I don't listen etc.

We do activity one but I cancel activity two and we go home, he spends the rest of the afternoon playing by himself. I say I am upset because our day together is ruined. He blames me, I am mean, don't listen etc, carries on denying xyz happened as the reason he lost marbles. He doesn't seem to care one bit.

He's so argumentative, dh and I try to listen to him but I admit he rubs me up the wrong way. He answers back for everything, he argues with everything. It's impossible to have a calm conversation with him because he denies anything you say, he didn't do it, it wasn't his fault, we re mean, it's my fault. He basically doesn't want to listen to any criticism or anything he doesn't want to hear. It comes down to him only being happy when he's allowed to do what he wants.

Dh says I went on too much, the argument did go on but only because he argued with the three points I made which would have taken 30 seconds to talk about.

I can't seem to stop him being so argumentative. In his head he is totally right and I am totally wrong, so we won't have learnt anything from the consequences of missing activity 2.

(even though we both know he did)

It's clear he doesn't believe that - either through a dubious memory, or by not actually agreeing at the time the marbles were removed, but wasn't in a position to argue at the time.

If he's argumentative, you need to end the argument, not prolong it - you don't need to "win" an argument with a six year old, you don't need to convince them that you're right (you might not be, especially in this situation where different viewpoints on the same event can both be "true")

The marble system clearly isn't working as a reward system, what are you wanting it to achieve, have you considered other things before?

He clearly wasn't in the mood to be receptive to your teaching - he very possibly did know what he'd lost the marbles for, but he wasn't interested in discussing why he was "bad" in your eyes at that moment, he wanted the fun day you offered.

You're the adult, you need to de-escalate, not punish again for something he's already been punished for (he lost the marbles, lost the pocket money, does he need another lecture?) Arguing against a child is not going to go well - that doesn't mean you just go "my way is true, so shut up" it means that you explain your point, and if it continues then you just end the discussion.

Arguing is a almost certainly a response to lack of power on his part, he's a kid, giving power is difficult, but give him choices, listen to his opinion, but don't argue. One of his choices was not to listen to the lecture, personally I think that was a fair choice on his part, but if you didn't, it's not ratchet up the situation by asking him to come back, it's to explain why you need to discuss that now.

Essentially, I do agree with your DH - the lesson you wanted to teach is one that is learnt gradually through discussion, it's not going to be learnt by convincing your child by speech alone.

Wise words sir. So I give my point of view and then leave it if he argues? What would he learn from that though, he just thinks whatever he says is right. He makes it very difficult to give my point of view as he constantly interrupts so a 30 second discussion turns into three times as long because he argues.

Would telling him why I want to discuss it now work? The trouble is he doesn't want to talk about anything he doesn't like, ever. He tells us he's only happy when he's allowed to do what he wants- but trying to explain that's not life. He argues and just says that's what he's going to carry on doing regardless, nothing gets through to him.

I wasn't intending to criticise him or tell him what he's done wrong. He had been rewarded and then I just wanted a quick talk about how he could do better next week as his marbles were a lot less than they should be. It was meant to be done in a positive way.

He is the kind of child who you see do something but he denies and denies it. The teacher tells me she's seen something at school and he denies it to me again and again even though she's seen it. There is no taking to him. He Admitted to me later he had done x, I saw him do x but still he denies it. He does know he's done those things, I can give clear examples to him of him doing y that very evening but he says he hasn't. He never thinks he's done anything, it's not him having a different POV

Sir- your last sentence is very interesting. How do I go about teaching that lesson by discussion with someone who doesn't want to listen to anything he doesn't want to hear? What do you mean it won't happen by speech alone?

Marbles has been brilliant until recently. We have had huge struggles with ds and life seems like a constant power struggle with him. We have used many, many reward systems which have failed or worked and then failed. But this has worked wonders but recently he seems to have lost interest. I wish he didn't need anything, he's almost 7, his 4yo sister doesn't need anything.

This thread demonstrates that you and your son are very alike (argumentative)!!! Nature verses nurture who knows! Just try to remember who the child is and consider whether a forced apology means anything to you. Adults often don’t want to apologise in the midst of an argument, they need to calm down first to see the other person’s perspective and examine their own behaviour. It’s not reasonable to expect a child to regulate their emotions quicker than you can as an adult when you are both angry.