YOu know how stroppy/rude/answering back kids are nowadays? And our paraents say we never behaved liked that............

[DrNortherner]

Did we behave like that and have they just forgotten, or are we getting this parenting malarkey all wrong?

Oh definitely. If you set 'harsh' boundaries eg 'you never ever say anything rude to me' then your kid will push but overstepping the mark will mean calling you a poopoohead and running sobbing to their room. If they are allowed to say or do what they like, they need to push much further to rebel...

northener he pusehs you cos he knows there is somwhere to go

ask your freind candidly " do you think ds get what he wants"

i bet you htey say he does

The other day I went to collect DS from a friend's house and he asked if he could go on the playstation when he got home. I said "we'll decide that when we get home". But he kept on going on about it all the time we were walking home, so in the end I just turned round to him and said "I told you we would talk about it when we got home, so now the answer is no". He wasn't happy.

I'm glad you said it first coddy

Mine don't answer back, whine or fight. BUT we operate a zero tolerance policy on all the above, even ds who is not yet two. My parents were horrified and used to think we were over-strict with the kids - now they look at them and look at their other (indulged) grandchildren and happily admit we got it right

Like Twig - we do a "mutual respect" thing too - things are explained (once!), we praise them for good behaviour and thank them for doing nice things - we treat them as we expect to be treated ourselves.

And cod said, we are the parents. Not their friends. They may not like some of the things we do but they love and respect us and we love and respect them.

And I'm not sure it's about nature alone tbh - dd2 has all the characteristics of a difficult and whiny child and has on one occasion performed up to this role admirably when in my parents' company - however the repercussions were huge and she never did it again . She is "hard work" though and needs constant keeping in check.

bozza that happens a lot in this house (where dd2 is concerned). She never gets what she is after by nagging and she knows it (doesn't stop her trying it on though ).

ds says no thank you, please, excuse me.

he generally does what he's told because he understands why I want him to do it and also because as with all children he wants to please.

He can answer back and be 'disobedient', this mostly happens when he is tired. I don't think it's a disaster.

however when dh and I draw a line, we stick to it, therefore generally speaking he doesn't push.

I don't think you have to be authoritarian in order to have a well behaved and polite child. I also think that a bit of rumbunctious naughtiness is just fine.

I really didn't. Beacuse my mother would have hit me, blamed me and then sulked for the better part of a week.

Not that I'm recomending these as ways of dealing with kids behaviour you understand.

If I had behaved in school as some of the kids I teach I'd not have been able to sit down for a week.

IMHO the pendulum needed to swing a bit, but has swung too far and now almost all methods of showing disaproval of a child's behaviour have been deemed wrong. Cant raise you voice, can't tell them they were wrong, can put theirn names on the 'sad' board.

and in the end it culmanated with children having dreaful behaviour and honestly don';t expect there ever to be meaningful consequences. Right up to the point where the polis step in. and this is selling them short. this is our fault! for being too wet with them

yes i agree

i'm definitely not scared of his tantrums, nor do I mind if he dislikes me and am certainly of the 'i'm his parent not his friend' school.

however, I choose my battles.

Definetly think some children have no respect for authority and believe there are no repercussions for their behaviour.

When I was pregnant I was assaulted by a group of very young girls (approx ages 8-12) just because I happened to be cycling through their turf. Never seen them before in my life! No serious injuries - but kicked and had stones thrown and spat on. I told them I would go to the police. And they were just like "yeah, so you think I am afraid of the police?"

And of course when I did go to the police they admitted they wouldn't do anything!

mb is spot on

I work with homeless young people. Just did a consultation with them on some government policy. They have very complex needs and no respect for boundaries on the whole.

We asked them what they thought about 'mediation' services to help them stay at home, rather than being evicted by family.

One guy, 17 years, heroin addict, rough sleepers, criminal record as long as your arm said (and I quote).

'It's down to the parents' isn't it? As they get more lenient we get worse and get in trouble and it all goes wrong from there.'

Says it all I reckon.

Ps - am total pushover with my 2 year old on the whole, but when I say no, he knows I mean it.

Btw didn't mean that to sound like our kids are doomed if we are a bit woolly with boundaries. Just thought it what this young man said was very interesting in context of this thread.

Lots of insight for one so truly screwed up.

I think sticking to a routine, clear boundaries (that are like concrete) and unconditional love are key to a well behaved child... sounds easy but hard work in practice!!!

I find if I allow "special treats" and allow the boundaries to move in the slightest or routine to change my 4yr ds starts misbehaving... is this because he then feels insecure? I don't know but it's a definate pattern.

I also find sticker charts working towards a treat at the weekend works well!

Does anyone else have any behaviour improving tricks for a far too bright bored very active 4 yr lad?

I think if you have children who are generally well behaved outside of the house, that is good. The fact that children push boundaries at home and less outside is a good sign that they feel safe enough at home to test limits. And that is the right place to learn how to work their way around the complexities of the world. If it means negotiating with parents at home, finding compromises, being a little cheeky, that's fine. That's intelligence and determination.

Exasperating as it is, I don't think compliance at home, whilst easy for the parent, is necessarily good for the child in the long run. But I don't mean rudeness to parents or anti-social behaviour. Not taking "no" for an answer the first time is fine - because we sometimes don't agree to our los' request because we are tired or it is messy or inconvenient. As parents, we have to be humble and accept that we do get it wrong sometimes. I can't really do the "because I said so" argument as law.

As someone once put it, children have a right to ask for something (even if they know it is not likely to be granted or perceived as "naughty"), but the ultimate decision to say "no" rests with the parents.

it's true mcnoodle

oh, and temperament plays a big part IMO

I must admit sometimes I think I'm a little on the harsh side but then again I get comments on how well behaved and loving my 2.6 yr DD is, She gets soo much love (I tell her god knows how many times a day and she says it back to me & DP) she also gets praised constantly and less attention for bad behaviour. I rarely have to shout at my DD as I crouch down to her level and explain calmly why I asked her to/not to do something. if I look her directly in the eye she backs down straight away. works every time. she knows that we expect, please/thank you's sorrys etc and hardly ever needs reminding. we also set rules and stick to them ie. bedtime story - one night mummy reads, the next night daddy reads - one story only. she used to try to push for another one from the other parent but now she knows it's pointless.
Consistancy, love and praise is the answer imho.

What if one parent is good on mutual respect and the other shouts and screams unnecessarily? Can it possibly work out okay? Or do the children get desensitised?

not sure about the shouting but my DP is sometimes less harsh than me so we have a good cop bad cop situation, it doesn't seem to affect our DD though as she knows that even if daddy's softer the rules are the same, just handled differently. I do the stern look "meaning stop it now" and DP does the softly soflty approach which takes longer but does also work.

sorry - don't agree that it's solely down to how parents treat their kids - we have three children, two of whom are almost always well-behaved and one who is really, really difficult to deal with - and always has been. We are consistent, firm etc etc with all of them - it works brilliantly with the younger two and has always been utterly useless with the eldest, even though I have frequently been praised by total strangers about the way I'm handling him. He has Tourette's though which does make things v explosive. I know that when he's kicking off in the playground for example that half the parents are looking at us and thinking what half of you obviously think -that if it was their kid he wouldn't be behaving like that - well, I'd like to see them try

I need to get better with DD. When her diet has been fine, I say NO and it sticks.... if she has had additives, colourings or generally too much processed stuff she will not stop . Its like she can't process controlling herself - she runs across carparks etc when normally she is terrified of them.

Argh!