SERIOUSLY......Now we need to disapline our toddler dd

[shhhh]

Right dd is 2 years and we never had felt the need to disapline her. BUT atm she is pushing dh & I over the edge. I understand she is a typical toddler BUT dh & I are finding to more and more harder to deal with her esp when we are out. 95% of the time she is a gem BUT atm she is tyring and really pushing us to the edge.

If she doesn't get her own way then its full blown tantrums on the floor and usually results in stuff being thown by dd..toys,books,bits of paper etc. Anythng she can get her hands on. We really try and stop this esp as ds (5 months) is usually in her aim. .

If we go out for a meal she is usually god BUT then there are times when she is uncontrollable. Shouting or screaming till she gets what she wants. I try and hold out but dh usually ends up and giving in to her,just for peace.

What do you suggest. I can't see the naughty step working as she won't sit long enough and there is no way she would stay put iykwim. We have tried putting her into her cot to calm her down but this isn't alays an option. We have tried going fown to her level and reasoning or tapping her hand if she throws something..no good. . Also if we hold her she gets so frustrated she turns and hits us accross the face.
We have all been out for dinner tonight and although other factors didn't help (ate dinner late,tired etc) she was a NIGHTMARE .

HELP.

Ignoring bad behaviour is very important when tackling toddlers imo.

Bad behaviour can often be attention seeking. Ignoring stops them from getting that attention. SO you say 'no' and then walk away.

NO point reasoning with a child who is tantruming. Ignore them or if somewhere dangerous hold them but no eye contact.

Cuddles when the tantrum has finished.

Understanding the causes of the bad behaviour is always important as it helps to learn how to deal with it.

Sounds like you've got a big case of the terrible twos - sympathy.

thanks TA. Seems like we are doing everything as suggested. I do try and ignore dd as much as possible and I agree it does distract from things and usually the tantrum does end after a moment or so...

I do praise as well once its ended esp if she has ended it quickly iykwim.

Reasons seem to be somethins simple. She wants postman pat or wants a dummy or doesn't want something. Things only a toddler can get upset over BUT they are so frustrating. I do try and reason or negotiate ie She can watch her programme,then mine or eat this then that etc. BUT the tantrum starts as soon as her "thing" has ended.

shhhh

she can't negotiate, she really can't. When you give her a choice, she thinks both things will happen - she doesn't see what she has gained, she sees what you have taken away when she chooses - if she 'chooses' to watch her programme first, that means the other thing is 'gone' - if she chooses the other thing, that means her programme is 'gone'.

Distraction is good - I used to use Naughty Spider who had just run under the sofa, here you are, go and find him and give him some bread.

Or, if stuck out somewhere, I used to put him in the pushchair and leave him to it.

Is it really worth going out for meals at the moment? Sometimes I think situations which are obviously going to be difficult are best avoided, for everyones sake. Especially if it's late and you know she'll be tired, I don't really think you can expect a 2 year old to behave well in that situation.
I know, toddlers can drive you crazy, but life is tough when you're 2 and you don't really understand how the world works.

so I take it im not a bad mother and I have to just ride it out..? There is nothing really that we can do to improve things...?

Usually it doesn't bother me and yesterday I lunched with a friend and her lo and coped well with dd and ds..Tonights meal was a last minute type thing and we never eat so late with dd BUT friends insisted we met and as it was we managed a little earlier than they wanted BUT it still wasn't ideal....so suppose I don't blame dd iykwim.
Its just that usually im the calm one but tonight I could have gladly walked away from her. .
DH drives me mad as he makes things worse for me by giving in and promising treats afterwards or by giving chocolate (items I had for after the meal as a treat iykwim). I understand its for a silencer BUT its a quick fix imo and is temporary and as I pointed out to dh..we pay the price later OR I pay the price another date.

IME avoidance is the best tactic for tantrums...

Plenty of sleep
Plenty of food
Choose your battles
Routine esp round bath & bedtime

No way would I take DS (3.4) out in the evening. I'm not keen on nuclear meltdown scenarios.

And also - and this is from the mother of a tantrum queen who is now a truely delightful 11 year old - PICK YOUR BATTLES! I think we quite often say no reflexively when no harm would be done by saying yes. Ask yourself "does it really matter or is it just that I decided that things would be this way round?" I used to have huge battles bout what dd wore, until my mother said one day "Why can't she wear her purple jumper?" And I realized it was because I didn't think it went with her green skirt! After that she wore what she wanted. No more clotes tantrums.

If you and dh have such different approaches, that must be really confusing for poor dd. I guess you and dh need to try and decide how you deal with her, and then stick to it. If you've tried lots of different things though, she's probably a bit confused
I often give DS (also 2) a box of raisins while he's waiting for his food to arrive in a restaurant. And a sticker book or something is handy, I think restaurants are pretty boring for a 2 year old
Don't think trying to reason or negotiate with a 2 year old works
But you really need to pick your battles, I think violent behaviour is the only thing that needs a really clear stance at this age, most other stuff can be ignored or use distraction to avoid it happening

Crossed post with everyone else saying pick your battles!
Must be message of the day

agree with FK - think having a toddler is very like having a tamagotchi - got to keep their sleep/food/comfort levels to optimum
also
you and dh need to stick together - act as if of one mind
breathe deeply and don't let the tantrums bother you.
positively reinforce good behaviour all the time

she can't help it just now but it will get better

Agree with all the other posts.

Sleep, routine at bath/bed time, good food (not too much sweet stuff it can make them go a bit lairy), choose battles and try to ignore the tantrums as much as possible.
ALso perhaps to avoid eating out at the mo.
DS1 had a tantrum stage (he is 2.7 now) which was truly awful, both DH and I found it really hard, but he is much easier now.
The best things were ignoring his tantrums (cuddles once he calmed down) and distracting him.
Trying to reason with 2 year olds is a nice idea but rarely works IME.
I was advised not to sweat the small stuff and give in to demands such as dummy/TV programme/odd clothes etc and I think this is good advice.
The Libby Purves book "How not to be the Perfect Mother" has a good chapter on toddler tantrums you might find helpful.

Hi - I have just found this thread and am reading it with serious attention. I have a 21 month old who is getting very determined and rather than tantruming, loves to Squeal and scream unbelievably loud. SHould this be ignored do you think or best to say something to him? Would love all of your advice!
Thanks

thanks everyone. Yup I agree dh & I need to stick together,usually we do but at times dh does tend to break with dd and give in and as a sahm I usually know what will/won't work but I so can't be bothered suggesting it to dh as usually ends up with him thinking im undermining him etc. Which Im not.

Tonight I did allow dd to have a small bag of mini biscuits before her dinner as I knew it wouldn't do her any harm,suppose I was just thinking that friends would be judging me iykwim even though they have a lo the same age. It was just that tonight he was so well behaved.

I tried everyhting that usually works 1st, toys books,raisens etc but tonight was a no go and usually im on schedule with routine but it was arrnaged last minute..suppose I have realised that this isn't an option for the moment. I said this to dh and he replied "well its not everyday we are out of routine" etc. Yeah but its ok for him he hasn't had her all day.!

Thanks so far everyone x

Don't feel her behaviour reflects on you, a tired hungry 2 year old is not someone to take on a dinner date

thanks tn.

I totally agree about not sweating the small stuff. I give dd nearly 4 a biscuit or something at tea time if I know it is going to give me peace to cook it. Sod what other people think.
My dp thinks I let dd get her own way too much but if it is something that I have thought about and decided the fallout from saying no or whatever is not worth the hassle I just let her do it and now generally she is pretty good. She does push my buttons sometimes of course.
You need to get your DH sorted though, yes he gives in and he gets a result for a short time but he has to realise that part of the reason she is doing this is because she knows she will get her own way if she does. If he stops giving in then she is eventually going to realise that there is no point in screaming and shouting about it because it just isn't gonna happen right now she knows that she has a few minutes and once she reaches a certain pitch then her daddy will give in.

I tend to be a bit like your dh and think an occassional night out of routine is ok but there was a time where we just couldn't do it but it did pass and no she is a bit older dd copes quite well with it althouh at the time I did think I would be stuck indoors forvever.