Should ds have outgrown this by now? I think so.

[cleomummy]

Ds 6, embarrassed dh and I yet again today because he can't take no for an answer. He's very much a child who wants more, more, more.

Surprised him and dd with a cinema trip this afternoon as ds has been trying really hard with his behaviour, he's just broken up from school and it's not often we all go to the cinema With dh too.

Anyway, at the cinema they had those tacky brightly coloured cuddly toys for sale at silly prices. On the way in they instantly saw them, started taking them off the display and asking us to buy one each. We managed to get them away and they accepted no as an answer as we were going into see the film.

However, on the way out ds and dd went over to them again and would not put them back when asked several times. Ds starts whining and saying he really wanted one. Saying he has enough pocket money to buy it (true, but he has several cuddly toys already, only wants one because dd has one and has wasted a lot of pocket money on random stuff he doesn't play with) he gets loader and starts crying. Other children are asking parents for things and they say no and just carrying on walking out or just walk past us and walk out. Another couple are there with their dcs happily looking at the cuddly toys but no demanding one like ds. Dd then follows suit and won't put hers back, very unlike her. They both start running away from us, we get one toy off them and they run back to get another.

I end up picking dd up and carrying her outside. Dh ends up trying to catch ds and he's running away, he's getting pretty upset now and is crying loudly. Dh ends up having to drag, half carry him out with him crying.

I feel at 6, 7 in December, Ds is just too old for this behaviour now and find it highly embarrassing. He's very strong willed and will not take no for an answer. We don't give in and end up buying him things when he behaves like this but he doesn't seem to learn. I worry we will have a 7/8/9 year old spoiled brat.

I can’t comment on whether this is normal or not as my dcs are a bit younger but something did strike me...

Could it be that he was frustrated that you didn’t let him spend his pocket money on it? Surely the point of pocket money is that he can spend it on whatever he wants? Granted he may waste it (in your opinion) on something that never gets played with but that’s all part of learning the value of money? If he was expecting you to pay for it then I’d say he was being very unreasonable by kicking off, but if he wanted to buy it for himself and you wouldn’t let him I’m not surprised he was upset!

Most kids may well have grown out of this but your DS showed you that he needs more help to manage a frustrating situation.
Talk to him about how he must have felt upset and angry. Ask him today if he wants to go back to buy the toy with his pocket money.

Yes, you're right. I think it escalated because he wanted to spend his pocket money on it. Previously we have always let him spend it on what he likes but he's only just wasted it on another toy which he never plays with and only admits was a waste of money. We are trying to encourage him to save up and buy something bigger which he really loves.

Yes, 100% he needs more help to manage his frustrations but I am out of ideas. Since it began age 4 I have talked to him time and time again about how he was feeling at the time when he has these frequent outbursts if we say no to him, looked at books about it, talked about strategies to calm himself down, how it makes us/him feel if he can't take no for an answer, I have tried simply hugging him to calm him down and then talking about it afterwards. he can tell me exactly what he needs to do to calm down afterwards, but in the heat of the moment he doesn't do it. He doesn't learn. I really want to nip it in the bud as I am worried he will end up being 7/8/9/10 and still have these outbursts.

You guys did the right thing. You just have to keep doing what your doing because the only alternative would be to give into him and that would make him worse in the long run. What about opening a gohenry account for him. It's got an app and a savings target. He can decide what he wants to save for and will be able to see the money gathering up online. It also comes with a debit which will make him feel very grown up.

I wouldn’t take him to buy the toy. Yes he was frustrated but I honestly don’t think he deserves it.
You need to set the guidelines before going to a shop/cinema/anywhere this might happen e.g. we are going to the cinema and that is an expensive treat. We won’t be buying any food/toys/drink because I don’t have the money. Don’t ask because you won’t get. If you tantrum we won’t be able to go to the cinema the next time there is a film on that you want to see etc. I think he needs advanced warning.
Also, agree that you should probably let him spend his pocket money on whatever he likes but explain to him that he then can’t buy the bigger thing. Give him the choice.

Della, yes I think advanced warning is where we also went wrong. I do normally do it for absolutely everything as I find he needs it and it does often help. He really struggles if plans change last minute or we don't end up doing something he's got in his mind. Sometimes even that doesn't work, he's very strong willed.

We have marbles in a jar which is kind of like the app as I thought he'd want something more physical which he uses to save up for pocket money. I try really hard to use this as a positive rather than only negative comments but he's already saying he doesn't care about it and he's only good because he wants to get toys! I emphasise the pocket money can be used for trips out etc not just toys. He has an answer for everything.

Yes, consistent, consistent. We try to be, me more than DH, and I don't think I ever give into these tantrums but still he tries it on every time. He doesn't seem to learn.

You need to let him learn from wasting his pocket money. Otherwise it's pretty pointless giving it to him.

Gold- if you'd read my previous posts you will see I said he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes or from how we react to his behaviour as you would think. He just ploughs on with the same thing regardless. He has wasted his money several times, recognises he has done it and repeats.

Gold- if you'd read my previous posts you will see I said he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes

He's 6. You're expecting far too much. This is learning that happens cumulatively over years.

You need to take a step back and remind yourself that your role is to teach him by example and by allowing him to make safe mistakes. Controlling his decisions around his own pocket money stops it being a learning experience.

Let him make decisions that he later regrets and then, when that happens, gently talk through with him what he could do differently next time. Eventually, he will learn.

Bloody hell- here's an update. Ds has been hard work all Easter. Two days in a row together and o am ready to kill him. I feel bad saying it but I am so relieved he's back to school now.

He's such hard work. Another screaming, lying on the floor tantrum as soon as we get home because I asked him to get changed. I ignored this and asked if he wanted me to come with him to get changed which made him go upstairs calmly. But then another tantrum and whining that I get him changed, once he stopped his tantrum I agreed but he had to be ready by x amount of time or I was going. Then another tantrum because I wouldn't let him have a cupcake before dinner and as a consequence for above behaviour. Then he throw a pillow at me which lost him marbles out his reward jar. He then told me he doesn't care about consequences and will just keep on doing the same thing again and again regardless. It's true, he cried over the cupcake but now happy again and doesn't care about taking the marbles away.

Then more whining because I was hugging his sister. He did say he wanted a hug too but was whining and speaking rudely at the time, So I didn't give him one. Was that right? I feel like that would be rewarding his behaviour and saying it's ok somehow or should I have hugged him to give him the affection and attention he wants? I have tried this technique when he's completely flipped out over something before and Cant control his emotions, it works, he calms down and I feel we have a better relationship because of it and I am showing him more understanding BUT it has no effect on his long term behaviour, he doesn't learn from it in calming down or accepting no or what he's been asked to do the next time something he doesn't want to do comes up. He doesn't learn from any consequences either. Sometimes His whole day is a string of consequences he doesn't care about.

He's only been back from school 1.30 minutes and I ve had to take myself away from him and I am counting down until bedtime.

I ve got myself so confused how to deal with him. We usually have movie night Fridays I am thinking I shouldn't do it because of that behaviour but then maybe he's doing it because he wants attention and cuddles and I should give it to him to make him feel secure. I just don't know what to do with him anymore, everything is hard work.

He will learn if you're consistent but it will take a long time by the sound of it.

Things like movie night shouldn't be taken away, you need to give him regular special time. But you also need to be very tough on consequences for serious bad behaviour, whining is something you might have to put up with.

Thanks noteven. We are consistent, I think the trouble is consequences mean nothing to him anymore as he's had so many, they have no effect. His day becomes a string of consequences, he won't get dressed=consequence, won't do his teeth= consequence, speaks rudely= consequence. If I gave him a consequence for everything he would have nothing. I can't keep up with them. They become meaningless.

When he was 2-4 was very tough on him he had big consequences like thinking step, early bedtime, toys taken away, we did it all. In hindsight I don't think I was too harsh. It doesn't work with him, we just lock horns. As time went on and he got older and I had dd I think I was so bloody tired and just trying to get through the day I did let him get away with too much- it's come back to haunt me.

We have special times, he has marbles for pocket money, praise, movie nights, I surprise him with treats when I think he's been good when he's not expecting it, I talk to him endlessly about how lovely it is for everyone when we aren't getting cross with each other. What he could do and we could do to make the household happier. He gets cuddles and kisses, attention and 1-1 time with dh and I. He's good when he wants to be and not when he doesn't. He s motivated by these things to an extent but doesn't think to change his behaviour to get them the next time he's asked to do something he doesn't want to. He's extremely strong willed and doesn't want to please, gets no motivation from pleasing.

You have my sympathy, my DS is difficult and I have been through stages where I seem to be forever doling out consequences.

A few ideas that have worked for me.

Giving very small or short consequences, I call this "microconsequences". So for example, instead of no more TV today, you say TV goes off for 10 minutes. Instead of confiscating a toy, the toy gets put away for 15 minutes. Instead of leaving the park and going home, go and sit on the bench for 2 minutes.

The situation you describe in the cinema sounds like a transition problem, I e. He had a nice time at the cinema and doesn't want it to end. I would try and help him move on to the next thing, e.g. shall we have toasted sandwiches for lunch when we get home, would you like to stop at the park on the way back, before the difficult behaviour starts.

Once you get in a standoff then it is hard, I think dragging him out was ok and you shouldn't feel embarrassed, I expect other parents admired you for standing your ground.

Another thing I find helps is not to give attention to the tantrum, with my DS literally looking the other way and acting interested in something else really helps, for example once when DS was on the floor screaming I said ok I am just going to check my email until you are ready to go, he got up and said I am ready now mummy. Also if DS is saying unkind things to get my attention I sometimes feign interest in something happening outside the window, just to make totally clear that the behaviour is not getting my attention.

It is hard, my conclusion is that some children seem to need to learn the hard way.