Have I spoilt him?

[MelbourneMum]

my ds1 (just 4) is behaving, well to be honest, like a spoilt brat. When he gets a treat, he complains eg ice-cream yesterday was too small, his own camera that arrived today after weeks of build up had the wrong buttons so he came into my bedroom in floods of tears instead of beside himself with joy like I had imagined (it was $14 on ebay just in case you are thinking his own camera at his age was crazy indulgence - I'm a photographer and he's mad keen) At meal times he must have the 'biggest' plate, 5 minutes after birthday presents he wants to go to the toyshop and basically, he has to be pushed into pleases and thankyou's and seems to expect the world to provide his every indulgence. I can only imagine that I have somehow created this because fundamentally he's a very sweet, sensitve and gentle little character. I'm finding it really upsetting. A friend having spent the wekeend with us recommended it was time for tough love so the next time he complained about something, eg the icecream, it would just go in the bin. Any tips. Is this normal behaviour or have I spoilt him?

MelbourneMum, just wanted to say, I think your ds sounds completely normal! Someone once told me you don't get any gratitude in this life. I think my kids just ask for things because it's worth asking, you never know when Mummy might say yes. We're careful to limit treats, e.g. they don't get an ice-cream EVERY time we go the park. I definitely notice more ungrateful whining when they've been getting/doing too much, especially when the grandparents have been around. My ds (4) summed it up: We were in the supermarket and he was complaining it was boring. I explained that sometimes we just have to do shopping, we can't do exciting things everyday, and we had a lovely picnic yesterday didn't we? He gave me a right sulky look and replied, "But that was yesterday!" It does get better - my 6 year old does now usually bow to social convention and uses please and thankyou, even if it's through gritted teeth!

thanks KTNoo, that's reassuring! I waver between 'this is normal behaviour' and ' oh my goodness what have we done wrong!'

It is normal, but IMHO that doesn't mean you don't tackle it IYSWIM.

DS (4.8) gets ignored if he whinges (or occasionally told to ask again without the whinge). If he whinges about something when he gets it (like the ice cream example in the OP) he gets one warning and then if he does it again he loses it.

He got in a huge amount of trouble last weekend when he did a spoilt brat "it's so boooooring" when we were actually about to buy him something - needless to say he didn't get it, and was told he why he was in trouble. We sat really hard on the "it's boooooring" and general lack of manners for the rest of the weekend and he did get the message and has been much easier to live with since then as a result - how long it will last is another question, of course!

Maybe we are scary mean parents but it does make him a nicer child to be around.

Just been thinking a bit more about this - a technique we used a lot with dd2 at this age was to empower her a little by giving her a choice: eg using the ice cream example, "dd2, you have a choice. You can eat the ice cream without complaining, or we can take the ice cream and put it in the bin. You choose - which would you like to do?" Worked with her every time - she was so happy that she was "in charge" of the outcome that the whinginess was soon forgotten.

lots of great tips and advice, thanks so much, feel a bit more like there are some strategies I can use now. Giving him choices is great idea Miaou and something I need to do more of in those situations, then he is 'choosing' the outcome in a way isn't he.
He is fundamentally a great little man, just has moments, a lot of them, like all kids do.
Thanks all, feeling much more positive. We are having a happy morning today. He's walking around trying to cover the kitten with his jacket at the moment to 'give it a house like a tortoise'!

I think I effectively use the same methods as Miaou - I may not phrase it quite as nicely though

I so agree with F&Z that a lot of whinging about stuff is often more about a different unment need (i.e not necessarily the need for the bigger ice cream)

Last week I took my ds(admitedly younger - than yours at 2.5) o my parent's house for a couple of days to see visiting relatives. It was a very busy visit with lots going on and it left me and ds a bit stressed. I took ds out one morning to get him out of the house a bit and went to the local toddler group.

When we arrived, ds was unable to play for more than a couple of minutes and he kept saying 'There is not much to play with here' even though the place was full of toys. He generally did quite a lot of whinging and sounded quite spoilt.

It was obvious to me however that he was overwhelmed by the noise and chaos at my rather voluble parent's house and that a visit to a toddler group was in retrospect not a great idea. What he needed was some peace and quiet.

We left the group early (ds protested louudly at this but actually calmed down very quickly when we got outside) and we went to a quiet park instead with only 1 or 2 other very small children in. He was much happier there and played contentedly while I drank a coffee in blessd peace for 20 mins. I then took him back for lunch which he ate and then had a 4 HOUR nap.

He was fundamentally tired, hungry and overwhelmed by seeing lots of new, noisy Italian relatives and what did his mother give him to calm him down 'more toys and lots of noisy children to play with' duh!!!!

Without knowing this though you would have heard a whiny, spoilt child whinging that there wasn't enough to play with and that the toys weren't nice.

I actually do think this kind of behaviour is partly due to over-indulgance. This is in no way an accusation of bad parenting though, it is the reality of the consumerist culture that we all live in and our children are all exposed to it. We have so much disposable income and of course we get pleasure from buying things for the ones we love most.

I know we look at the past through rose-tinted glasses, but can anyone else remember behaving like this when we received presents? I certainly didn't, but then I only got new toys twice a year - birthdays and christmas. Hence, it was extremely exciting for me and I was very grateful.

I think buying a camera for a 4 year old is a wonderful idea and a great way to nuture his creative side and a hobby for you to share together. However, could the gift have waited until birthday/christmas. The anticipation is half the pleasure! Perhaps by giving our children less we can actually increase their pleasure from it.

Saying that, I think it's only fair that you model the behaviour you want from them. You can't be buying a new handbag every week or Dad a new gadget if you expect your lo to be grateful with twice yearly gifts. And you can't stuff your face with chocolate everyday if they can only have ice cream once in a blue moon.

I personally disagree with throwing ice-cream in the bin. It is teaching your child to be wasteful. Better to give it to someone else "who really wants it" - preferably another small child

I agree TAP about children receiving too many gifts for no reason, I remember waiting and occassionally seraching for and peeking at gifts put away for Christmas and birthdays, it was SO exciting and agonising waiting. I probably need to look at that, even though I don't think I overindulge him, if the mood takes me and he asks for something, occassionally I just buy it without really thinking it through, just because of the pleasure it gives him/them/me! The camera was part of his 4th birthday present - he got so many from friends on his birthday that we waited a few weeks to give it to him so it would be special.

lazycow that's a really great point, looking at the situation and getting to the bottom of it perhaps before judging/reacting. I just completely overreacted tonight with both of my ds's. DH is away for busines and it was almost 8pm and I had been struggling for an hour to get them to sleep which is very unusual, normally they go down beautifully at 7pm. So they were both crying and being roughly the 10th time I'd been in their room to settle them I got very cross and shouted at them. The look on their little faces, especially ds2, made me feel sick. Had I just stopped and taken five minutes to talk to them I would have realised they are just thrown by their daddy being away, he usually reads their story and has a lovely bedtime routine with them so naturally they were out of sorts but I was too impatient and desperate to get to my computer to work and so my two little boys went to sleep on the threat of the door being shut and the nightlight going off. I feel horrible. There just does seem to be such a fine line between indulgence and patience, reasonable and unreasonable requests and behaviour that I can't quite seem to distinguish it. Sigh

Don't be too hard on yourself. I turn into the wicked witch when the clock strikes 7pm.