How do you cope with complete defiance?

[TheOriginalXENA]

9 year old DS1 has taken to completly refusing to do things. Basic things like going to bed and getting up in the morning.

We try not to resort to physically moving him (he is almost as big as me and so would descend into a fight)

So my question is how would you deal with it?

Oh, god, I hope someone comes up with an answer to this.

My ds1 (9) is also very defiant.

We usually manage to persuade him with threats (no computer time tomorrow, no pocket money) or appeals to his better nature (we've had a lovely day, you can be such good company and so grown up when you try etc etc) but am aware that this is completely unsystematic and probably disastrous in the long run!

Persuasion was working for us. but now with a dead pan face says NO "go back to bed DS1" .."NO"
So last night I stay in your bed or get out of my house I think maybe we do need some additional help with him]
Both DH and I would never have got away with talking to our parents like that- we probably would have been smacked everytime we left our bed

Do you know why? Most children that are aren't like that. Is there something he isn't happy with like a problem at school he hasn't spoken to you about or a change at home which is hard for him to deal with.

Defiance like this has got to be a RESPONSE to something. He is defiant as a way of getting some control I think.

Do you think there's any scope for a re-think of your parenting of him - I do think it's very very easy to get into a groove and continue on the same way as you would when you were dealing with a 4, 5 or 6 year old. I think a 9 year old can be negotiated with way more than you do with younger kids. Instead of being told to go to bed, you could talk to him and say, "now that you're nearly ten, I think you could stay up a bit longer - what do you think is a good idea, 8.30 or 9pm?" obviously he will choose the later timeslot but he has had the choice.

I also think it's possible that you could be more of a 'team' with him, maybe instead of "go back to bed ds1" it could be "what would you like, me to come up for five minutes, or dad?" Maybe he wants your company more? Maybe he wants to talk?

I think you're right to not think of physically moving him. It's got to be done with words, attention, negotiation, allowing him to feel that you're all a team rather than the parents issuing dictats and him defying them.

And remember they can only defy you when given something to defy. If he's up you could just cooly say "gosh, you're going to be tired tomorrow aren't you" and go back to reading the paper of whatever.

I don't think so. He does however have some difficulties with communication (been refered to speech and language)

Honoria you post makes alot of sense. I have started thinking that maybe where DD1 just has the ability to reason (shes younger) he needs to be taught it. You make alot of good suggestions.

thanks Xena. I'm glad it helped.

good luck with the speech and language for him.

Indifference on your part. Tell him what you expect, plus consequneces. He takes responisbility for his behaviour at 9. Wakes up late? Late for school? His look out if he gets detention. Etc etc.