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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Help me! Am about to lose it big time with DS.

25 replies

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:06

DS is 4.5 and REALLY pushing the bounderies at present.

He won't do anything he doesn't want to and is indulging in some really nasty behaviour at times - hitting out at the kittens and us. This is usually when he is thwarted in some behaviour or other. This evening for example, it was because he wanted ice cream. I said "No" as dinner was nearly ready and said he could have some after that. He went beserk with rage - ran off screaming and shouting. I cannot tell you how tempting it was to shout "just piss off you little horror". I did just manage to restrain myself. He then returns to the room and taps the kitten on his way past him - diliberate provoking for which he spent 4 mins on the stairs.
Other silly behaviour is him blowing loud and defiant raspberries at us when we make him do something he really doesn't want to - like clearing up a mess he has made. It drives me incandescent with rage.

Time Out - how does that work exactly? DS just seems to have to constantly be put back onto the step and spends the entire time shouting defiantly or sobbing.

Bed time - which used to happen with such ease is now a battle. I have confiscated several toys over the last two nights and he is still playing me up.

Just now - "Mummy there's poo in my room"

Why?

"It just fell out of my bum".

I have cleaned it up without comment and put him back into bed yet again - half the toys appear to be on the bloody bed with him so yet another fucking night when he is going to be awake until gone 10pm.

Forgive me - but as an anti-smacker I am about to lose it with him and if I do I am not certain he won't get several very hard smacks after which I will end up hating myself. I am at a loss to know what to do with him - strong willed does not begin to describe him at the moment.

I love him to distractiuon but at the moment I am struggling to like him very much.
Help me before I do something I'll regret. I am trying so hard not to be negative and to praise the good behaviour but he is driving me mad. I can just see him sticking two fingers up at us in the future and doing as he pleases.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

snowleopard · 02/07/2007 20:14

This sounds so hard for you and I haven't been there (yet!), but wanted to reply. Is it just you there? Can you take a break and leave someone else to deal with it?

Remember if you do hit him it won't solve the problem. The only reason you want to do it is to vent your rage - so try to vent it another way - throw something old out in the garden and smash it, or relaxation breathing or something like that if it works for you.

It sounds as if he's realised (maybe not even consciously) that he can get a feeling of power by winding you up - which is understandable at that age as they are so capable but have so little power in their lives. try to take a step back and see it as a phenomenon, rather than just infuriating (I know that's not easy) and try not to care so much - then it will lose its appeal for him.

I would also go to a bookshop and have a good browse at the parenting book, I find this therapeutic when I feel I'm a bit out of my depth with DS. I usually buy one or two and use them to help me get some perspective and tips (though I don't tend to follow any one book religiously).

giddy1 · 02/07/2007 20:15

Message deleted

cba · 02/07/2007 20:21

hi, this sounds as though he is pushing the boudaries. My two boys have done really well with the following reward system.

In the morning say to your ds right today I am giving you 20p but if you are naughty and do not do as you are told you will get a fine and money will be taken away from you. Give one warning if he dosent stop then he gets a fine. When he gets a fine tell him I am now fining you 2p. If he starts yelling kicking and screaming, which he will, stay calm and say "I am now warning you if you dont stop you will get another fine" and so forth.

At the end of the day when in bed, say "you have had x fines for xxxxx but you have earned xp". "Lets try and earn all the money tomorrow"

Give him his own pot and let him take ownership of it. He may take a day or so to get used to it, but once he realises that his actions of monetary consequence and he gets less he will soon realise.

Also, he time he gets a fine put a black cross on a sheet of paper, so when it comes to bed time he can see the number of fines he got and can count them with you.

My sons are 6 and 4 and it works with both of them.

Good luck

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:23

It's okay - have resisted the (very tempting) urge to smack him.. Am reading The Incredible Years (Webster Stratton Parenting) book and trying to remain calm. DH is away this evening but finding DS equally hard work. Am trying to reason that DS has lots of changes at present. He starts school in September, gave up a night time dummy two weeks ago (late I know) and has finally started pooing in the loo rather than in a nappy.

...and he has just come down the stairs again. Aaaggghhhhhh!

OP posts:

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:26

Thanks cba - will try that. Sounds a good idea. I have to try something different as the Time Out thing is obviously not working with him.

OP posts:

elliott · 02/07/2007 20:26

But then what do you do with the money?
I tried something like this with ds1 but using the famous MN pasta jar (soupdragon's idea I think). Same principle really and then swap the pasta for a reward or for money - but I always had a problem thinking of a good reward!
interested in this becasue lately ds2 is playing up - really differently from ds1 - he just doesn't seem to care what we think, its all just a game to him.

Snowboo · 02/07/2007 20:27

Wow. All i can say is you are NOT ALONE!!!! My ds1 is 4.6 and driving me NUTS!!! Everything is a drama, his latest thing is not eating. And i mean nothing. He is starving, lost a lot of weight but refuses to eat and does everything in his power to wind me up. Last night i was in tears after yet another long drawn out dinner time, tears, tantrums and arguing. I have tried making deals (doesn't work) shouting, sending him to his room, ignoring him etc etc. Have walked out of the room to stop myself smacking him so far.
I've caught him being horrible to his baby brother, demanding this that and the other....oh the list goes on.
Apparently this is a phase they go through and it passes. Then they become teenagers....

Sorry not any help but i wanted you to know its not only your ds....

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:28

Thanks people - so glad to know I am not alone in this.

OP posts:

Furball · 02/07/2007 20:30

been there and done that, they know exactly what buttons to press and when to press them. He is just sussing out what is what, what the rules are and how far can he push them.

You need to be firm but not shouty or rude and get down to his level and tell him with direct eye contact. Naughty behaviour you get a warning, so say no we don't do that if you continue you will have to sit on the naughty step, then take him and plonk him on the step and say, sit there for 4 mins and think about what you have done. If he gets up don't say anything just plonk him back again if he keeps getting up say the 4 mins starts when you sit nicely, if you keep getting up I'll just keep resetting the 4 mins. Eventually they do get the message. After the 4 mins, say right, are you sorry for xxx, if answer is yes say can I have a kiss and a hug. If no say you can sit for another 2 mins.

You could also make a start chart together and make of list of things you want him to do and discuss it with him. Nice stickers for everything good sad faces for everything bad. If all smiley faces and stickers - wow you get a treat at the end of the week. Just something small like a comic or chocolate bar etc. Again you must be consistant.

Good Luck - they do come through it....

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:37

...did I mention I was a HV too. I spend half my working life supporting parents with children who behave like this. All the techniques I advise other parents (for which they say "Thanks - it has helped") don't seem to work for me as I have DS metaphorically sticking two fingers up. Why am I getting it so wrong with my own child?

He is going to nursery tomorrow and I am going to work I can hardly wait to shove him through the door of the nursery - and go to work for some adult conversation without all the bloody hassle of DS - isn't that callous.
I honestly DO love him to bits usually.

OP posts:

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:39

Thanks FB

OP posts:

rantinghousewife · 02/07/2007 20:42

Something I feel hasn't been mentioned but, is very important, you and your dp need to act together, it's no good if there is no consistency. You need to sit down with him first and think of a strategy to deal with it that you can both implement, otherwise ds will just exploit any inconsistencies because, well, that's what children do.

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 20:45

Yep - we've talked about this over the phone this evening RH (good name btw). I think we are fairly consistent but it doesn't hurt to review things and see exactly how consistent we are.

OP posts:

quickdrawmcgraw · 02/07/2007 20:49

dd is the same with absolutely hating to be scolded. I've found that getting really cross and giving out doesn't really work with her because it'll just make her angry with me. She'll spend her time in the hall muttering awful things about me and it really doesn't make her reflect on her own behaviour.
What works better with her is talking about it rather than being shouted at. If she's behaved badly and done something that I've asked her not to (if I can control my temper) I'll bring her over to me and ask her what she did and does she know why I don't want her to do it. I'm just talking really and not getting angry. Then I'll say 'ok, so now you know that you're NOT allowed to that so if you do it again what should your punishment be?'
She'll decide somehing like no pocket money that week or no TV or no friends over or whatever.
The reason she'll throw things around and slam doors etc is because she's embarassed that she's being given out to and hates it more if anyone's around to see it so then feels she has to punish me for embarassing her. That's why talking works better.

ds is the total opposite. If I give out to him he'll dissolve in a puddle of tears and keep saying 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again.'

rantinghousewife · 02/07/2007 20:50

Yeah,(thank you btw) sometimes it just helps to have a chat between you because then everybody knows where they stand. Fwiw, it doesn't last forever, I have a ds (a teen) who was a wilful toddler, (the sort most saints would want to strangle), he's a little (?) gem now.
I found ignoring the behaviour the simplest solution and just telling him that I'd talk to him when he behaved. When he was an angel, I'd give him as much undivided attention as he wanted. Takes a while but, I found it worked. Different children respond to different things tho'.

ELR · 02/07/2007 21:03

jamies mum my dd (4y 8months) is exactly the same and worse at the moment it is driving me nuts!
for the first time ever i smacked her the other day just a tap on the hand but she smacked me back and said 'see its not nice is it' so clearly that does not work
she is also very emotional at the moment crying i love you give me a hug when she is naughty when i speak to her and ask her to calm down she says she just cant help it.
The nursery nurse at her preschool said it is a very difficult age they all go through
just wish it would hurry up
today dd was having a tantrum about her drink not cold enough apparently i just explained that she could scream and shout all she wanted but i would not get her a new one after a few moments of thought she changed the subject

Original poster

akaJamiesMum · 02/07/2007 21:10

Thanks ELR. Loved the comment about "see it's not nice is it" from your DD when you tapped her hand. Don't they just have the ability to bring you up short just when you least need it.

Thanks to everyone for replying and.....

HE IS ASLEEP!

... and OMG he just looks the picture of cutness and innocence. Had to stroke his cheek and kiss him. Just looks a little angel now - how on earth could I have been so close to losing it with him?

OP posts:

MadamePlatypus · 02/07/2007 21:19

DS is only 3.7, so maybe I have the 'terrible 4's ' still to come. However, when he is being a real pain I find the only effective thing is to set up a couple of days for us to just hang out and have fun together. I have to consciously expect good behaviour from him and try to see everything in a positive light.

It may sound odd, as no 'punishment' is involved, but it really does break the cycle of bad behaviour.

I think Time Out only works as Time Out in the sports sense i.e. a chance for parties to have some time alone to regroup and calm down, not as a punishment.

cba · 02/07/2007 22:08

elliott, at the weekend let him go to the shop with you and buy a magazine, stickers, pencils something along those lines. Mine like to save the money

Kammy · 03/07/2007 11:44

Oh this sounds really hard going.
I am a recent convert to star charts, or a points system after doing it for my son and neice (5 and 8). I focussed on 3 things I wanted them to do (rather than not do) including nice table manners, doing what is askd with respect to everyday things. I also deducted points for being unkind and one other behaviour I really really wanted to stop. Much to my surprise, the chart worked, and they were both clearer about what I wanteed them to do. They saved up 100 points and then we had a special day out at a theme park
Hop you find a method that works for you.
Hopw

Kammy · 03/07/2007 11:44

eeek - spelling!

Snowboo · 03/07/2007 13:04

So can anyone enlighten me as to how long this behaviour lasts?
Have started a reward system this morning, when ds was naughty i put a cross on his chart. Then we had a full on tantrum, tears etc but then he said he didn't want a star when he was good!
I'm oh so tired....
And i thought we were lucky missing out on 'terrible twos'. So is this double payback??

bozzy · 09/07/2007 13:08

I know what you mean about being lucky missing the "terrible twos". My DS is 4 in August, and is due to start school in Sept. However (we live in Gibraltar), we are requesting that he defer a year (on advice of nursery staff and our own instinct...). Anyway, he is driving me and my DH crazy at the moment - we have a daughter aged 2 and there is a lot of jealously going on at the moment. He is not communicating well like his peers (very noticable when I go back to London to see his friends he grew up with). I know he is really pushing the limits and winding us up (he has always been a very good little boy) and because of his communication problems, I have never tried sticker charts as I never thought he understood them. I will give them a try. He doesn't go to sleep at night now either and cries and shouts until we almost lie with him to get him to sleep. Time out doesn't work ... It is comforting to know others are going through similar situations....

bozzy · 09/07/2007 13:08

SnowAndSun · 09/07/2007 13:11

Well the reward system seems to have done something. Wont say too much (don't want to tempt fate) but he has been nearly good this weekend. It was actually a joy to sit down and talk with him. He told me all sorts of school things which so far he has refused to do and told me the name of his 'girlfriend' at school! Progress!

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