please help me out tonight. ds1 (nearly 4) is just so draining right now.

[oops]

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meant to add DS has tantrums and melt downs daily over really really small things to the point that there were queries of mild autism. He just hates change, he has his way of doing things and thats that!

tv doesn't really work as quiet time. you need to actually calm things down completely. I tell ds stories in our bedroom when he particularly needs it. admittedly I don't always manage to persuade him to do this.

ooops - I really feel for you.

Your ds sounds very similar in a lot of ways to mine. Chilled until he turned 3.

My ds is 4. He's been referred to an Educational Psychologist through his nursery. But there won't be a diagnosis of anything - he's far too young for that and actually may never need it.

But we are getting support, suggestions, strategies and understanding.

He has a few sensory issues that we've noticed, but nothing that prevents him doing anything normal. Only his teachers pick up on it and us - no one else has ever mentioned anything IYSWIM.

Ds likes the TV - he keeps still when it's on.

At nursery he has a squashy rubbery cushion which helps him to find his place in space without fidgeting too much. Letting him let off steam is vital. WE got a trampoline for that reason! aLthough it's fun too. wE make him bounce if he's off the wall for any reason, but make it into a game.

Being really really really clear with simple instructions helps as well. DS does not respond when I am sarky or vague or shouty. But he will listen if I get right next to him and tell him what I want him to do - no choices unless they're my choices.

ie "put your shoes on, then you can choose a car to take with you"

'Because I am your mummy and I'm telling you to actually works occasionally too! ALthough I told myself I would never day that!

He also has visual reminders of what's happening next so there is no arguing or wheedling or moaning (not saying he doesn't wheedle,argue or moan, but it's about reducing his ammunition ).

When I lose it with ds and shout he gets nervous and anxious. Until recently we had a bad spell with using the toilet - he refused to go unless he wanted to - and he started biting his nails to the skin.

We eventually put 2 and 2 together and eased off and the nail biting has stopped. As has the toilet troubles (for now ).

A lot of our stuff with ds is just immaturity. He will and is growing out of loads of the stuff which screamed 'ASPERGERS' or 'ADHD" to me. Other stuff lingers. Maybe he does have a condition.

But for now I'm learning to work with him and around him. SOme things I'll let him off with - eg he flaps his hands (big autism alert!) when he sees some things moving. I used to tell him to stop, but one day he told me he liked doing it when he saw things move in a certain way and I figured I should pick my battles.

RE clothes and shoes. I've been consciously buying more "comfy" clothes for ds. Lots of elasticated waist bands, soft tracksuity type fabrics, and tumbling things to make them softer. He comments now if something's really comfy and loves putting things like his baggiest trousers on.

Dh just came in and asked what I was so busy typing and I said "oh someone on MN has a wee boy who sounds a bit like ds"

His reply?

"Lucky them"

could he be physically sensitive to touch?

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OOPs I remember my ds at 4-he was unimaginably difficult too. I remember feeling no connection with him at all-I really didn't feel that I liked him terribly much because he seemed to be at the route of all the stress in our family

However he is now nearly 6 and he has really turned into a sweetheart again. When I think back to him at age 4, I hardly recognise the child he now is. I truly hope that your experience is similar-that it is an awful phase and that he becomes less complicated with age

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Hi oops

one thing we're trying with ds atm is Social Stories. THey're not complicated, just a narrative version of what will or might happen in a day.

His nursery teacher and I have written one for starting school based on ds. It's a bit like

"Now I am older I will go to school. On a school day, I will wake up and go to the toilet straight away because it's a long time since I've been. tHen it will be time for breakfast. I can choose what I would like to eat. I am hungry!" etc etc. (not word for word - it reads better than that - honest)

We've tried to build in as many of the things ds might encounter on an ordinary day and every so often add in things like "If I'm sad or don't know what to do next I can ask a teacher or my friends". There are lots of '|this might happen" options too.

It's about 3 pages long and the idea is we'll use it like a story to prepare him for school. tHere'll be one fo lunchtime and playtime oo.

When we've had bad days that are completely impenetrable and a write off (and tbh there are never very many of them), then I have the option of just not taking him to nursery. It's only nursery

ds' teachers now take him away from the larger grouop sometimes to do small group work. Both ds and the other children love this quieter time and ds listens and participates brilliantly when the surroundings are less distracting or his audience is reduced

Meant to say that there are loads of times when he is just being naughty and 4, there are other times when he obviously just doesn't "get" what's going on.

My ds is very bright, articulate, good with numbers and language like yours. The ed Psych and his teachers have said he will have no problem with the content of the curriculum once he reaches school - if anything he'll eat it up like chocolate! But he will need a bit of prompting and guidance to keep engaging with it and help to realise the world doesn't actually revolve around him

He is a quick learner and loves rules. so we just call a lot of common sense things "rules" now and he's quicker to learn behaviour that other children might just pick up intuitively. That's the biggest difference I see b/w ds and other boys his age.

My mum's an OT and works with severely autistic kids and she has said on numerous occasions that although he may have some things which could tick some boxes, there are lots he doesn't ever do.

You also have affection, empathy and presumably reasonable eye contact and communication from what you're saying. A lot of what your ds is going through might just need to be taught and modelled by you and your family if that makes sense? And he'll get it in time.

Kettles boiled

oh god grief have you been watching our house lately? DS is nearly 4 and we're getting lots of this but yes, mainly with me (this morning huge tantrum about me going to the loo without an audience, I mean the full screamtastic monster number)

We're trying the ignore/refuse the tantrums route which has worked reasonably well apart from this morning, and making a joke about sulks (I can't stand sulks). I'm also constantly telling him "in five minutes we'll ...." '2 minutes to ..." and thats helped.

Re the sensory stuff have you tried making touching part of a game (wow does that sound dodgy or what?) We had a massive issue with getting him dry after a bath or swim and now play the parcel game with him instead (so you wrap em in a towel and write the address on their back, tuck in the wrapping paper, put on the stamps, squeeze into the post box, into the post van (shakes as it goes round corners), squeeze through the letter box and open to reveal....tada!).

You sound a lot calmer than me. There are days when fishwives call by asking for shouting advice...

Ooh I've got one too - a 3.11 year old, who works so much like yours, although mine is ds2 and has a very gentle big brother to look after him. The combination of an energetic, sensitive, intelligent 4 year old and a demanding 2 year old brother is not an easy one for your ds1 or you. (Though I did read somewhere that toddlers who have tantrums because of demanding situations they are coping with, learn to cope with complexity much better than those who have tranquil childhoods.)

Not much to add to the comments below, but wanted to echo the idea of getting time with your eldest child if you can. I accidentally did this as ds2 went to a childminder, one or two days a week, who worked during the school holidays and I enjoyed some precious days with ds1 on his own at home.

Awww Bobsmum. What a lovely comment from your dh.

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oops - I so get what you're syaing about you dh. My dh sees himself in ds a lot of the time and takes some of my telling him off very personally. But then it also helps getting an adult's perspecive on things. Dh (like ds) has an elephant's memory and can remember being 4/5 so often tries to explain how ds might be seeing the world which helps a bit.

When ds gets wound up by dd (just 2) he often ends up screaming "gaaaaaaaaaah!" - but more often than not that's jsut cos he's a big brother being wound up - not because he's struggling for any other reason.

We're having a nice day today - I can hear giggling

I also have a DS (5) who is the same as the little boys mentioned on this thread. I thought I would share what we do to help him.

Every weekday morning we try our best to have it the same, for eg

DP will go in and wake him up and ask him to get ready.

I will lay his clothes out in the order he needs to put them on

DP has taught him how to tell left from right with his hands so he barely gets his shoes wrong anymore.

Once he is ready, he brushes his teeth (and we count to 100 while he does it) Has a wash.

Then he will get breakfast whilst I get ds2 ready.

Keeping things in a routine like this helps the best Ive found.

Just like any other mum I get annoyed, aggrivated and shout at him, we all do it! We all feel guilty for and we all know it doesnt work! lol The naughty step doesnt work in our house either, but taking away his favourite toy for an hour or so does work.

Think someone else mentioned it above, but getting him out for a run in the park, or even chasing him round the house after school tickling him I think has improved bed time.

My ds gets so upset that hes "slower" than everyone else in school, He always finishes his work last in the class, Ive spoken to HV, teacher and GP and we are waiting an appointment now to investigate whether he has dyspraxia.

He is always falling over, very emotional and stamps his feet in temper and sometime hits himself which i find very upsetting.

He is very bright, he is brilliant with reading and writing, just other things he struggles with.

Yesterday was my hardest day for a while, we cant ever get a moments peace with him, he feels the need to talk constantly, he really only ever shuts up when he has a dvd on or hes asleep, just the talking alone wears me out!

I hope you have a fun day ooops, my DS has gone back to school today afer being ill. For the first time in ages he went in without crying!!