Struggling with Challenging Behaviour

[Lavenderdays]

Have also posted this on the SEN board.
Trying to decide whether to get some sort of an assessment for dd (just turned 5). Up until now we have just described her behaviour as challenging, mainly due to her age but I am now coming to the conclusion that maybe I should request an assessment for her (we have private healthcare and can access a child psychologist using this).
Dh doesn't think there is a real issue but has seen glimpses of the things that I am talking about and it leaves me feeling that I am blowing things out of proportion.
Examples of Behaviour
Likes to be in charge of play which can make relationships with other children difficult. Has already had a major tantrum at school because she couldn't have something another child was using and had to be extracted from the situation.
Mood swings/prone to meltdowns/tantrums if she cant do what she wants to do. Likes choice i.e to do something on her own terms...I'll have my hair brushed after I've had breakfast.
Resists instructions a lot of the time (concerns me because of safety, i.e crossing roads, running off, to the point that I don't feel safe taking her out very far, seems very impulsive).
Has no fear of authority figures (will hug head teacher and speak to him in a very informal way). Will ask adults what their names are and say things like, I like your earrings and ask impertinent questions.
Resists lining up for school, will run off and hug me etc.
Has already got into a fight at school because she shoved someone because she couldn't get her own way and a full on fight ensued.
On occasion has told a parent that their child hasn't shared (yet has difficulties with this herself.)
Her learning ability is probably above average - she seems to read numbers well and will say things like 7 and 2 that's 72, no problems learning to read.
At my wits end really because I feel like it affects family life. We went to a family photo shoot recently and her behaviour was outrageous, she got majorly excited and would hardly follow instructions, and displayed almost manic behaviour (would hardly listen to photographer etc.). Has meltdowns in restaurants and other public places also, this is unpredictable and makes me feel like I don't want to take her out unaided.
Anyone? Please be kind.

Hi Lavender, giving this a bit of a bump for you as I read your post and thought I could have written it about my four year old. Very similar behaviour. What is she like at home? And how long has she been displaying this behaviour? I don't really have any advice but hopefully someone will be along who does. Just wanted you to know I understand!

Hi Hairy, sorry you are experiencing this too but it is a relief to know that I am not alone, I really feel quite isolated at times and out of my depth. She was a calm, laid back baby but a demanding toddler.
I posted this today on another thread (another poster with a dd with similar traits...perhaps we need to start a support group! Posted as follows:
Wapp, I am watching your thread with interest because I have a reception age dd (just turned 5 and started school) and I could have written your thread. I have been searching for answers for a while now, dh just describes her behaviour as challenging but I am on the cusp of wanting to request an assessment for her. She doesn't tick all of the boxes but certainly does show several traits for PDA.
She hates being told what to do - in the end we try to make it seem like she is in control for example giving her a narrow choice...
DD = "I don't want you to brush my hair."
Me= " I'll brush it before breakfast or after breakfast, you choose." or "you have a quick go and then I'll have a go." Like your dd she hates being told off. Often she enters into negotiation.

It is extremely waring, and tbh it is a relief that she is now at school because previously she had no sense of fear and I have had to watch her every step of the way (getting better with this) and coupled with her somewhat unpredictable moods has left me not wanting to take her very far in the holidays at times (I have other children too), so I think I have become a bit isolated from other parents with a similar age child. She is also very bright and has a wide range of vocabulary, seems to read numbers well and yes good memory. DD is also full on she does thing 110%. She doesn't like to leave an activity until she is ready. Apparently she told me, that she shouted at the teacher yesterday because she wasn't ready to move onto the next activity, no doubt I will be hearing more at parents evening from the teacher. Tiredness might have something to do with it also, I try to ensure she gets early nights but she can also wake early 5.30/6.00 am too. She appears very confident, will talk to adults easily and does not seem to easily recognise authority (or at least does not seem intimidated by it.) I am waiting to see how dd progresses through reception but if things don't change it may well be, that she will require an assessment. I have often felt very alone with all of this or like I have done something wrong...but her elder sibling has not shown these traits and was different altogether as a small child, I assume I have parented them both in a similar way.

Thanks. Just read that other thread too, so definitely rings true for us too!

My daughter was a perfectly normal child until about 3 I would say. Our main issue now is that she is hugely demanding, strong-willed and bossy and it's impacting her relationships with her peers. And yes tiredness must play its part, I'm sure. Ours hasn't been a great sleeper and has only really started sleeping through the night in the last few weeks. We've had a long period of early starts which leads to huge grumpiness (for all of us!!!)

What is your child like in interactions with other kids? We aren't at the school stage yet, but totally dreading it already!

She is very bossy and likes to dictate play. I haven't arranged many playdates for her sadly, likewise she hasn't been invited to any (this isn't all her own fault though, I experienced a late loss and became quite introverted for a while whilst she was a toddler). I tend to take her to the park where she can run around and interact with other children and that seems to work much better than playing with and sharing toys. She has an older sister who sometimes plays with her (sister is several years older) but they will sit and play lego together for quite some time. I do worry that she is going to end up quite lonely and be excluded from things if her behaviour doesn't change and that makes me feel sad. It would be interesting to hear how she plays with her peers at school, I think she has a sharing issue there too unfortunately which is a shame because she has a lovely caring side and is really kind to anyone smaller than herself and likewise plays better with anyone older than her. It wasn't like this with my eldest dd - we would have lots of playdates and I made a few lovely mummy friends as well, this really hasn't happened with dd2 for either of us.

Oh Lavender, sounds like you've been through a lot.

I'd definitely echo that fear of them being lonely and isolated from other kids. Mine is very sociable but often her playing with other kids ends in disaster. She does tend to get on better with older kids mind you. But she does come across as bossy and over excited and rough compared to other kids so it puts a lot of kids off playing with her and they tend to give her a wide berth! It's a pity as she loves chatting to other people and is very interested in everyone!

I suspect DD has some sensory issues too, not sure if this is something you've considered for yours?

Yes, my dd sounds like yours. We had a child visit for a play date recently (I thought I would try it). Said child was the opposite of dd and had many fears/phobias and it ended in disaster, that's exactly it playdates etc. don't seem to end well, to the point that I have almost given up. Another time when dd was younger she pushed another girl onto the floor because she couldn't get her own way and at soft play she would enter a manic mode = not wanting to take dd out anywhere unaccompanied. My dd is also very chatty, interested in people etc. Sorry you are having a similar experience Hairy but I thought that my child was a one off, therefore it is a relief to hear that there are other children possessing similar traits.

What was she like at soft play, Lavender? My daughter is quite volatile also, so going anywhere in public is risky and we have to think through everything in advance. I try to be relaxed but it is hard. Would be nice to have an "easy" child and just be able to go out and do whatever we wanted, without a second thought!

Hairy, I've got two threads running I think. I mentioned soft play today in another thread - took dd out to soft play and was expecting some sort of incident to arise and it didn't although I was nervous for much of the time. Volatile is a good word to use - that describes dd fairly well and I understand what you mean about not relaxing, like I couldn't completely today. My first dd was much easier to take anywhere and I feel sad that I have felt limited with dd2 but there have been so many things that I haven't (and still feel like) I cant do. It is hard trying to explain this to parents who haven't experienced this, to the point where I have sometimes thought I have imagined it or exaggerated how difficult it is, hoping that it gets easier over the next year or so (then perhaps it is time for an assessment of dd's needs) but hoping beginning school will have a positive effect.

Think we've been getting confused between the two posts haha!!

When I asked about your DD and behaviour at soft play I was referring to your earlier post on here about "manic mode" at soft play and I was just wondering what kind of thing you meant? Mine is frequently in manic mode in many situations! That's good you had a positive recent trip to soft play though, as it's often a very stressful place to take kids!

Hi Hairy, yes, sorry about the double thread thing but yes, dd use to get hyper stimulated and not really think what she was doing so thrash her legs wildly and kick another child in soft play for example and not really think about anyone around her and when you asked not to do something, she would totally ignore you and run off. She used to do the same with swimming, just get hyper-stimulated and not follow instructions at all but with both things she seems to have improved and calmed down, so hopefully this will continue (it also makes thing safer for her, which was a primary concern of mine, that she seemed to have absolutely zero fear).

This is EXACTLY like our situation Lavenderdays. Soft play and swimming are tricky for us for the same reason, although they are both things my DD enjoys.

Good that we have the other thread and lots of people in similar situations with helpful advice.