Bedtime battles - not sure who's crying more....

[trell]

Would really appreciate some advice. My dd is 4 in a few weeks and bedtimes are a battleground. Routine is generally up to bed at 7:30, read a book, tell her a story and then do '2 minutes' which is me sitting quietly in her room while she settles down. That's the theory, in reality she talks all the way through the book, shouts and cries when I don't tell the story how she'd like, says she needs a massage, drink, toilet, light on, light off, door open, throws her legs, arms around, scratches, kicks but when I go to leave she goes ballistic and begs me not to go. DH says I'm too strict and expecting too much to want her to settle down on her own. I know I am responsible for her behaviour but I just don't know what to do and feel cr*p because I feel I should know. I adore my dd but find this really upsetting and dread this part of our day.

Please, anyone....

have you ever done all those things and then said goodnight and leave the room..

Yes, there was a time when I'd finish the story and within 5 mins would say goodnight, big kiss and that'd be it - no tantrums. But that seems to have turned on its head now. Problem also that dh can't bear to hear her crying so I tend not to just leave her to cry herself out.

Surprised your dh thinks you're too strict... i'd say the opposite. My kids've settled themselves since knee high to a grasshopper, and certainly almost 4 is just trying it on.

My advice?

1. Decide on new order and stick to it & make sure you have dh on board.
2. Explain new order to dd.
3. Buy ear plugs and hard hat.
4. As of tomorrow put new order in place.

At our house our routine is dss go up, get on pjs, do wee and teeth (except ds3 who's 3, I do his teeth. Then, I read 1 story. he gets to choose. If he faffs about too long I just choose for him. Read book, will tolerate certain amount of interruptions (ie friendly nice chat discussing what's happening on pages, not general chat/interruptions allowed. End of story, I ask if he wants another wee, then it's a kiss, night night and into bed. All mine have an any way up cup of water in bed. I only half fill it for ds3.

Imo sitting there for 2 minutes while she is settling down just surely means she won't settle down.

Talking, shouting, interrzuptions, any other crap by that point I couldn't and don't put up with, cos by that time I'm knackered. I get all 3 in bed in about 15 minutes. pj, wee, teeth, story, bed. doors shut. night night. silence.

But this sounds like a deeply ingrained situation, so you'll both have to agree, the bite the bullet, cos she pobably won't take too kindly to change, but she'll be ok within the week, so it'll be worth it.

Does she try to rule the roost in other areas too? SOunds tough.

Thank you for that - I guess I really know she's taking the p. Unfortunately, I think the real problem is more between dh and I we have completely different views on whats acceptable. Ordinarily, dd is caring, bright, courteous and although she does try it on, she's pretty good. Am worried that unless we sort our act out, it'll get much worse when school starts.

How about your dh putting her to bed?

Dh does put her to bed once or twice a week but he tends to give in to her demands more which stops the tantrums but means a later bedtime.

seriously, I find it difficult tget my head round esp as by bed time I'm too knackered to take any crap, and dh has much less patience than me. problem clearly seems to be largely bwn you & dh.
Thing is, you're right it will just keep getting worse, and spread to other areas. You just need to stamp on it. One of my dss went through a phase when he's want a million toys in bed then he'd go mad if one fell out and he'd calll us crying several times to retriev teddy or whoever. Then I just thought 'what the f**k' am I dong? Next night - no toys. No discussion. It ended there and then. i don't theink he complained more than 1 night. Mind you, he knew there way no milage in it.

ive started putting dd to bed without a bottle now as she is 27 months, and she doesnt kick or scream, but she gets genuinly upset and cries and says 'please cuddle me' so i feel really awaful and lye and cuddle with her

Ernest - love your approach but struggling with this in my house too - resorted to standing outside the bedroom holding the door shut tonight as otherwise a bouncing DD2 would exit like an exocet missile and run downstairs shouting "I don't want to go to bed!". We have already done "the routine" - pyjamas, milk, teeth, stories, boobie, cuddle. She is just a complete livewire though and will not settle. Until a week or so ago she was pretty good at settling herself. What does occur to me though as I type this is that she has recently potty trained herself (about a week ago!) and we are also due to move house in a week. Perhaps she's unsettled and this is her way of showing it. Who knows, but it's driving me nuts!

Ah, maybe I can help now!

My dd is much younger than yours (turned 1 today!)
so other people will have to advise you on the actual techniques.

But with regard to the conflict between you and your dh,
now that rings a bell - just the other way around:
Your dh sounds a lot like my missus and I aspire to be like ernest

My suggestion based on our compromise model is this:
Rope in your dh to implement all the fluffy, non-crying measures
that he thinks are appropriate. If they solve the problem, fine.

If the issues remain or get worse then surely your dh will have to
accept that softly-softly is not the way forward here.

At that point print out ernest's advice and get cracking!

OK firstly start earlier - put her to bed at 7. If you have an extra half hour to fit everything in, that will immediately make you feel less pressurised and stressed and so you'll feel more in control.

Then get your DH to agree that in front of your DD, you are going to sing from the same hymn sheet. If children spot a tiny tiny chink in parental armour, they'll squeeze through it, and if your DH disagrees with you about the bedtime routine, there's the chink and she's spotted it.

The bedtime drink - bring it with you so you're not running around after her, the loo, make her go before the story, and then give her a big hug, good night and out - I don't really understand the point of the 2 mins, it seems to me to be another opportunity for her to attack!
Hope some of this helps.

Sorry, I couldn't continue with the discussion. I know it will be difficult to implement the changes but am realistic enough to know things won't change on their own. Dh and I just seem to clash on lots of parenting issues and we both think we're right in our approach. In spite of this, my plan of action is to sit down with dh and try to reach a compromise on what we're going to do. Once agreed, we'll both tell dd and hopefully can stick to it. Had a chat with dd this morning and asked if there were any bedtime things that bothered her - she said no but added that she couldn't wait to go to bed to show me how good she was going to be . Have obviously heard that one before but just proves she knows she is misbehaving. Am determined to crack this and hopefully get some peace. Thanks to all.

all the best trell I def think your dd is playing on the rift between her parents attitudes. We have a more ernest like approach by 7pm I need by space back!

Overall I'd say we go with your dh approach. Less tantrums but later bedtime. Where's the harm in that?

I agree with ernest, and I've done a certain amount of holding the door closed as a last resort. At 4 they know the score and are playing for time.

I also use a star-chart and if they go to bed with no messing about (amongst other things), they get a star in the morning, and stars make a reward at the end of the week.

Couple of suggestions:

(1) Put her to bed a bit later. My 21 month old DD goes to bed at 20:00 and is asleep within 10 min on her own. We moved her bedtime from 19:00 two months ago when she started acting up during bedtime, didn't want to lie down, screamed the house down, etc.

(2) Tell DH you are not interested in putting her to bed like this, and if he does not want change, he can put her to bed for the rest of time while you enjoy a glass of wine and watch some TV That is the approach that made my DH see the light.

(3) Once DH agrees with you something needs to be done, make the new rules and stick to them come what may.

Good luck!