Would like some help re: 2 yr old!

[LiamsMum]

I'm pretty confused about the 'discipline' situation at the moment. My 2 yr old ds is a normal, active toddler who generally has a happy nature and isn't really what you could call a tantrum-thrower - he will have a good whinge/cry/scream sometimes if he doesn't get his own way, but it is usually over pretty quickly and he doesn't throw himself on the floor, etc etc. Anyway today I took him for a walk in the park and everything was fine until he came across a drinking fountain. He thought it was wonderful pressing the button and seeing the water come out. Problem was, people kept stopping to have a drink, so I had to keep pulling ds aside so they could use it. I gave him about 10-15 minutes playing with it, and then when I tried to leave, ds threw a bit of a fit. I had to carry him away screaming and while I was walking towards the car, he was trying to hit me. I was conscious of all the people walking past, so I just held on to him tightly and tried to distract him. Finally he settled down about 5 minutes later when I put him in the car. Later on I told my mum what happened and she said I should've smacked him for behaving like that, regardless of whether there were people around or not. What do you think..? I must admit I felt like it at the time (because he was trying to hit me), but I am wondering if I should have been harder on him. It's so hard to know what you should/shouldn't do in some situations. He's my only child so I haven't had to go through this before!! Thank you...

Liamsmum, if you're not a smacker and don't want to be, don't! Your ds sounds completely normal from my experience of ds at 2 and IMO a smack wouldn't have helped. With my ds it would have just wound us both up into a frenzy and escalated the situation!

Know what you mean about passers by and the embarrassment factor: you just have to forget about them and deal with ds as best you can I think. I liked Christopher Greens' Toddler Taming for ideas on how to deal with situations like this, ditto Steve Biddulph, The Secret of Happy Children. The terrible twos will pass!

Sounds totally normal to me, and I think you handled it about as well as you could. I had a similar experience recently when I had to remove dd (2.5yo) from Tescos by throwing her over my shoulder and carrying her kicking and screaming to the car, with blood pouring down her face where she'd stuck her finger up her nose. I'm sure that smacking dd in that situation would only have made things worse, as it would have made things worse with your ds. They get themselves in such a state that they don't really know what they're doing any more, so IMHE it is best to try and stay as calm as possible (not easy, I know) and just hang onto them until they calm down and want a nice reassuring cuddle. Smacking or shouting just revs things up even more.

If it's any consolation, I remember my ds (now nearly 5) going through this stage - they grow out of it eventually. We handled him pretty much as I've described and he seems to have turned out fine so far - in fact I'm sure the only thing that stopped anyone challenging me when I was 'abducting' dd from Tescos was the fact that ds was trotting along beside me as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth .

liamsmum, it's funny you should write this because i was talking about just this last night with my mother. My ds (2 1/2) has just started getting really naughty -up until now he has always been an angel(!!) - happy, content and well behaved but just recently he will completely ignore anything i or dh says - or even do the opposite. My mother's advice was that at that age they are just beginning to realise what they like in life and that they can make their own decisions. The important thing is to stick to your guns then after a while they know there is no point arguing about it because no means no .... i don't agree with smacking and don't feel like there are occassions when you 'should' if you don't agree - IMO it just puts a further distance between you and your child. The 2-3yr old stage - i think - is about them learning their ways, learning about relationships with people and the more straightforward and simple you are with rules / communication etc. the easier it is for them to understand. Think i'm waffling but i hope you get the gist!!

How did you feel when your mum suggested you hit him. I admit I would have probably wanted to slap my mum!

\Has it ever been an issue between you? Would she ever use this discipline on him when he's in her care, and if so, are you ok with that? just curious really how members of the same family with different views on this get on.

I have never hit either of my kids, but I have felt like it 3 times. I can remember how angry their behaviour made me. I went into another room. Calmed down (about half a degree!) and was so glad I never did it. I really never want to hit my kids - as an adult I can behave badly too and would bemortified if I was hit for it. toddlers behavour can be very demanding but I can't see any justifiable reason for hitting. Sorry - don't want to reopen the many smacking discussions!

Quite right emilys. Watching dd now it is clear that she is learning how to make choices, and also is pushing to see exactly what she has power over and what she doesn't. Can be a very frustrating time for all, though.

I haven't been through this yet but I think that you did the right thing, if you don't think smacking is right. This might be controversial but I think that smacking works by making your child frightened of you, and that's something that I find unacceptable.

Can I just recommend "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk"

I had it recommended to me and I have been very impressed. It teached methods of engaging co-operation with your child so you can have a mutually respectful relationship, rather than a stressful battle of wills all the time. I know I will be referring to it lots over the coming months and years...

HTH

Never smack your children because someone else thinks you should. Had a lot of arguments over this with my own mum and in the early days of motherhood smacked my children to appease her.
I did smack as a mum but only in certain circumstances. As I grew in confidence I ignored my mum. As my children have grown I don't know when I last smacked them although on a daily basis I often feel like beating the c**p out of them

Message withdrawn

Thanks everyone for your advice. I guess my mother feels the way she does because in her day, it was common to smack children on a regular basis. I actually remember being smacked by her when I was little and although I don't think it happened a lot, it certainly stuck in my memory.

My parents see quite a lot of ds and so far, my mother has gotten annoyed with him a few times but I know they haven't smacked him. I have the feeling though that she would like to be able to give him a smack if she feels it's absolutely necessary. I agree with Bloss that occasionally a smack can be appropriate (depending on what they've done), but personally I don't like doing it and would rather use another method to discipline him. DS once got very traumatised when I put him in his room for a time-out, so I don't really feel comfortable using that method either. Even though it was only for a few minutes, I think it frightened him - it did seem to 'cure' him from doing a particular thing that I didn't want him to do, but I just felt uncomfortable and sad about the fact that he was so upset by it. It's very, very tough sometimes isn't it...?

Liamsmum, I agree with others here in that you did a great job in difficult circumstances and smacking is unlikely to have done anything other than increase the intensity of his crying etc..!

On the "time-out" front, as ds is only 3.5yrs old, we don't like to leave on his own as a punishment, so we put him on the sofa and he has to stay there for a few minutes without any toys, books etc for a few minutes until we have all calmed down. My brother and other members of my family find it hilarious that we use the sofa as part of teaching ds discipline, but we ignore their comments because it works for us and ds very rarely has to be put on the sofa.

My dd is 2 and she sometimes does this too. I don't really care though about what onlookers might think, they have all probably been through it before! I just calmly pick her up and put her somewhere out of harms way until she calms down, I would never hit her. After about 5 mins of screaming she starts sobbing and is ready for a hug. Toddlers don't understand why they can't play with something, they don't reason very well so what seems like a minor incident to us, is their whole world collapsing to them! He was probably having a great time and didn't understand why you would want to take him away from that! Once we put ourselves into the minds of our kids, we understand them better.

You did just fine. But I think you had better get used to it, they do seem to peak a bit on the tantrums!!

I agree with the sentiments here, Liamsmum. I think you should try and stick to your own disciplining yardstick- even if it's one you work out as you go along, and don't we all to some extent?- rather than using methods you feel uncomfortable with. It's really hard when someone special to you has different ways of doing things, though.