4 year old - looks shattered but can't sleep

[Babytalkobsession]

Wondered if anyone had any advise or shared experience.

DS is 4 and started Reception in September. All I hear from other mum's is how tired their little ones are, how they're doing bedtime earlier & earlier. Is anyone else finding the opposite? I just can't get my DS to go to sleep. He should be shattered but he's bouncing around all evening, wanting to make dens, do craft, jump on the beds etc. I can't get him to settle down to have a calm bedtime story, he just wants to play.

He's not getting to sleep until around 9pm. We have him in bed before 8pm (it's a battle) but he just kicks around, sings, shouts down to us. He's getting about 10 hours sleep but looks awful - grey skin, dark circles. He clearly needs more sleep. What can I do? We tried starting the whole process earlier but he just nicked about for 2 hours instead of 1

DS has never been a good sleeper, always hard work to get to sleep and dropped naps before 2 years old etc. But he doesn't look well and I worry how he can concentrate at school if he's tired.

Any ideas? Thank you.

10 hours is plenty...well the recommended is 10-13 so he could stand for a couple more.

But he shouldn't have grey skin and dark circles. Is he getting fresh air after school? Playtimes don't amount to a lot of time outside...and what's his diet like?

Does he have any processed foods after school? I'm not just talking about sweets and pop but about packet cakes or boxed foods.

Another that thinks that 10 hours is within the normal boundaries but agree that he shouldn’t have grey skin. I think it’s worth taking him to the GP for a general check up to eliminate things l8ke anaemia.

As for bedtime, what’s your current rountine?

DS1 spent a lot of reception getting 10 hours, though the cause for him was early waking. It was progressive: the more tired he was, the earlier he'd wake. It sounds to me like yours might be similar- he's actually shattered but the more overtired he is the harder it is to drop off- and it's a vicious circle. I'd try to have a low key half term with plenty of downtime: give him a chance to rest and reset everything.

Thanks for you responses.
I'd say say his diet is ok. He eats school meals for lunch and the menu is very good at his school. Evening vary depending due o our schedule - Monday is after school club so he has a snack there and then quick tea at home (sandwiches, beans on toast etc)
Tuesday is does a sport after school and then home cooked tea with grandparents
Wednesday he has swimming after school so it tends to be a picnic tea (prob a bit on the processed side!)
Thursday is home cooked tea
Friday is childminder home cooked tea.

I feel he's getting a good variety of exercise, and he walks / rides his bike to school.

He just has a very busy head.

Routine is bath at 7pm, pjs, teeth, two stories with his brother (neither are focused on these, it's quite draining and stressful - lots of silliness and I often end up a bit cross). DS2 is then in his cot at 7:30 (he's 2) and DS1 gets another quiet story in his bed. He insists on having his door open & a lamp on which I think doesn't help as he can see everything which keeps his mind busy!

Move bath forward to 6.30 or knock it on the head and do shower in morning instead
Make bathroom light mellow
Change the lamp bulb in his room for a warm red orange light
Try listening to a kids' meditation track / story (some on youtube but obviously don't watch the screen)
Make sure no screens 2 hours before bed
Does he have time just you/a parent and him before bed?

The other thing that really stands out is daily change in routine. He's in afterschool club, sports, swimming, home, then childminder? Something different every day. That's hard, tiring and unsettling. Can you make it more stable/samey? We did no after school activities in reception. If you really can't change it then make sure you draw up a schedule to reassure him/ run through every morning and intro more stable routines where you can.

Also meant to say - he's possibly overtired if struggling to switch off. School is hugely tiring for them, mentally.

Thanks Babb, I know his routine isn't ideal but I work three days. We're going to change it so he goes to grandparents straight from school on a Monday - it's a home from home for him so not overly tiring. Tuesday will remain as after school club, but he does the sport club as part of that which he enjoys.

I pick him up Wednesday & Thursday but he does swimming on the Wednesday, which he does enjoy. I take him and it's lovely 121 time. Friday childminder is a neighbour and is lovely a calm environment. He's home by 5:30 all evenings but I do get it's a lot for him. Thankfully he doesn't need to do breakfast club so mornings aren't too rushed.

He is by nature a busy kid, always has been. Very physical but not really into quiet playing or books which makes the wind down hard.

I'll try a story cd to see if that helps - great suggestion. I think he needs 11 hours sleep at least to be on top form. So 8pm - 7am would suit him.

To add, he does know his routine and is already familiar with what happens each day. He's done long days from a young age.

He's 5 next month.

Is DH home in the evenings and do the DC share a room?

If he’s around and the bedrooms are separate, I’d do individual stories in their own bedrooms and see if that helps him to settle. Sometimes when children are together they can excite one another.

Is there any chance you can move the swimming to the weekend? Our Primary doesn’t do any clubs for Reception children at all. The Head thinks they have enough to cope with adjusting to school.

I agree with trying to bring bedtime forward too. We did tea, bath, books bed with the aim of having the lights out at 7pm at this age. If you’re not getting in till 5.30, you could always aim for 7.30pm. Ideally you want him to wake naturally in the mornings when he’s had enough sleep

Is he getting 5 a day OP? Fruit and veg?

To me he sounds overtired. He seems to have a very busy and active schedule for such a wee one. No shame in this, you have to work and it's good for him to see you do that. Maybe try a very early bedtime for a couple of weeks and see if it makes the difference. Also, I know it's hard to get him to settle and go to sleep from your op. My dd is the same. I try not to focus on getting her to go to sleep just getting her to stay in bed. I Don't allow crafts and play in the evening everything stops at 5.30 we have supper or watch a movie/program together or she has some time on the iPad. Do you work at the weekends? If not then make that your time for lots of fun times. Maybe you could buy him a bed tent then instead of building dens he can just get into bed. My dd takes ages to get over so her bedtime is 6.30-7 and she's 11.

Jilted yes DH is around for 4 out of 5 evenings so we could try splitting them.

I do see that his schedule is busy. If he didn't do his sport club on a Tuesday he'd still have to do after school club until I finish and I prefer that at least the sport club means he's burning off that pent up energy from being focused in a classroom all day, and gives him some fresh air. It's not full on, just a mix of different sports - like a pe lesson really.

Tonight was better. He was very tired. 2 stories and then left with a relaxing bedtime story cd on. He was asleep by 8:15 which is better than we've had in a while.

I'll keep working on bringing the whole process forward.

I'd say he is getting his 5 a day mostly.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Overtired. DD has spent a lot of her life overtired and this sounds very familiar. I now get into bed with her (she’s 6) at lights off to help her unwind. I don’t stay till she’s asleep but just till her breathing slows and she stops fidgeting and goes sleepy. I have to be quite firm about no chatting! If I do this she goes to sleep pretty quickly around 7.30. If I don’t then she can be up bouncing and getting more hyper for another hour or two.

Could you try this? I know it might feel like going backwards but it’s really helped DD. And it takes a lot less of my evening than repeatedly going up to tell her to to go to sleep...!

Both of mine went manic and not tired in reception. The transition to year 1 is absolutely battering the oompfh out of DD2 at the moment though.

I would really keep an eye if they're as washed out as you say they are though - DD2 got like this a bit toward the end of her nursery year and I assumed it was just tiredness till she absolutely went downhill very very fast and a cold/cough that hadn't been anything really to write home about had turned into pneumonia.