4 year old behaviour at school

[Eminybob]

Ds started reception this month. He’s July born so not long turned 4.

On the whole he has been fine, he’s enjoyed it and is picking up the learning really well, but 3 or 4 times I’ve picked him up and been pulled aside by the teacher due to his behaviour.

Basically a few times he has just kicked off out of the blue like a red mist has descended.
It has started with him refusing to do something the teacher has asked, yesterday it was not wanting to say another classmates name when they were supposed to be learning each other’s names. He just flatly refused, and when the teacher told him he had to he kicked off, was told he was going to go in time out so started throwing chairs, overturned a table and in the end the headteacher had to come and he had to be restrained to stop him hurting himself or someone else.
Other times (the last one was last Monday) have been similar but to a lesser extent. The inbetween days he has been as good as gold according to the teacher.

When he has done it, we have punished him at home, spoken to him, he has been apologetic and repentant and we have seen an improvement in his behaviour. But it seems like then the weekend happens and it starts all over again.

He did have some similar issues at nursery, we were told he has trouble controlling his emotions. They were going to refer us to a health visitor, but that never materialised and his behaviour got better with the help of rewards charts etc.

I have spoken to his teacher about what nursery have said and looking at a referral but she says she doesn’t think he has a problem like ADHD or something because when he puts his mind to it he can be so good, and he’s able to concentrate, and doesn’t show any other signs of being on the spectrum. Although he is very shy and struggles making friends and learning peoples names (hence the big kick off yesterday).

At home he is generally fine. He has the odd tantrum and is a bit defiant but nothing major, but then I think we are used to seeing the signs that he might start and are good at distracting him to diffuse a situation. He has never been one for having major meltdowns that last for hours or anything like that. He’s generally a loving, sometimes cheeky, funny little boy. He’s very cuddly and very much a mummy’s boy which I know might not help him in the long run.

So I’m just at a loss about what to do with him. The issues at school need to stop, but every time I think he’s turned a corner we have another incident. I’m working closely with his teacher to try and smooth things out but I don’t know what to do next.

Oh, another thing while I think about it. When I ask him why he’s been naughty he says he can’t help it, he tries but it’s too hard to be good. When I said in exasperation, “what are we going to do with you?” He said “take me to hospital” because I think he thinks that there is something wrong with him that means he can’t control himself. Which breaks my heart.

Sorry this is so long, if you have managed to get this far, any advice would be really apreciated.

Also wanted to add that I am expecting dc2 in November and worried about all the change happening at once, but I don’t think this is contributing to the behavioural issues as he seems really excited about it and the problems at nursery pre-date the pregnancy.

Hopeful bump in case anyone has any bright ideas?

Goodness me he is 4, I don't really know what the school expect, are they not trained in early child development at all? Your poor son.

Time out, head for restraint? That is terrible of the school don't they know you can't force a 4 year old into anything?

I think the good news is he will grow out of it, mine was the same but luckily not in UK so don't have this school setting and dealing with childcare who actually know about child development and emotions.

Is moving schools or removing him until he is 5 an option? I guess new baby means maternity imminent so no worries on childcare front?

Thanks for replying.

I hope he does grow out of it, but I am worried about the extent of the behaviour, the fact that he is throwing chairs etc. I think the school are doing what they can, the teacher is fab, and I think is genuinely worried for him. I think time out is a technique they use for bad behaviour in general though.

I know he is still so young, he’s one of the youngest in his class and is adjusting to so much change so some of it is understandable.

It’s just so upsetting, when he is usually such a happy little boy.

Sorry I'm going to disagree with pp, I don't think that exploding in the classroom and throwing furniture is part of normal four year old behaviour at all. Sorry op not being nasty i just don't think that minimising and saying "he'll grow out of it" will help here, I am talking as a teacher with significant early years experience. The thing is, he doesn't sound like a naughty boy who lacks boundaries at all, he sounds as if something is causing him a huge amount of stress and upset. I'd ask staff in school to fill in an ABC behaviour chart for incidents. Basically it looks at factors that happened before the incident EG what was he being asked to do? We're there noises, smells, was it too hot, too cold? Then what during and after the incident...,, it helps to uncover any patterns EG could speaking inpublic be a problem?
Also, when you talk to your son about it try saying "tell me in YOUR words what happened" rather than why did you do it? Or what shall we do with you. Uncover the cause and you/the school can put a targeted suppport program in rather than just reacting to negative behaviour as it happens.
Good luck op, this sounds very difficult for you

Thank you.

I hadn’t considered that it could be stress. He is a very shy boy so I do think speaking in public is an issue, also one of the other things is at snack time they have to choose a seat to sit in, and he has refused to. Then when told he has to sit down he has kicked off. When I’ve questioned him he said it was because he didn’t know where to sit. I think his shyness played a part in this as well.

But then some other things like just refusing to stop playing when told to join another activity, I don’t think can be attributed to shyness.

He’s been absolutely fine all week. It’s Monday I’m worried about as that seems to be a pattern. So I’ll have a talk with him over the weekend, and if there are any issues I have parents evening on Tuesday so will talk to his teacher then.

I think JacNaylor's advice is great. It doesn't sound to me like he's a badly behaved boy or that he's a boy who chooses to misbehave when he's capable of controlling himself it sounds like he's unable to cope with anxiety so if something triggers him to feel anxious he explodes.

Difficulties with transitions are fairly common - particularly in children who are already under low level stress. Have they tried a visual timetable and perhaps warning before he'll have to move to the next activity? Does he have any sensory issues? It sounds a little like my nephew who is being assessed for ASD. (If he is diagnosed it will be on the very mild end) but could equally just be part of DS's personality coupled with immaturity.

My son has autism and had very similar behaviours to this when he started school. We never realised he had it until he started school and we could see he wasn’t able to cope with things the way the other children were.

My son is 9 now and getting much better at managing his emotions. We don’t punish him when he gets upset as he only does this when he gets anxious. Now he recognises when he is getting upset and requests a break to calm down.

Is your son actually shy or is it possible his difficulties interacting are due to something like autism?

I have had questions in the past as to whether he could be on the spectrum. He did used to have sensory issues relating to clothes, he wouldn’t have bare arms for example. But he doesn’t seem to have that problem anymore. (Although he does refuse to wear certain clothes because he doesn’t like them).

The shyness I’ve often wondered about. He has always seemed happier playing on his own when in an environment with other children, but then he always wants to play with me or dh at home rather than on his own.

I have voiced my concerns in those respects to the teacher but she has dismissed the idea as she feels that it’s a choice he is making as most of the time he is really good.

I’ll speak to her about it again on Tuesday though.

Him being good most of the time then having a meltdown when overwhelmed has absolutely nothing to do with choice and very much points to being on the spectrum, so I would challenge the teachers opinion if I were you op. My ds is also 4 and has autism and most of the time is a very good boy, sweet and kind and affectionate. But when he is overwhelmed or frustrated very extreme behaviours come to play and he struggles to control himself, which we work on massively.

The fact your son struggles to transition between activities is a big indicator of asd. I would push for a referral or go to gp and see if they will refer you.

A suggestion - don't punish at home for what happens at school, unless the teacher specifically asks you. It doesn't sound as if he's fully in control of himself and for such a young child punishment at home long after the fact is only going to add to his stress levels. Try to keep home calm, cheerful and restful.

I would also go and talk to your doctor or health visitor and see if you can get a referral. You don't have to take DS along when you do this, just describe what's been happening. There is a very long waiting list so it does no harm to start things early. If things improve you can take him off the list.

His behaviour does remind me of my DS, who has an ASC, though my DS's behaviour was more frequent and more extreme. DS also seemed fine at home. and his teacher described him as "a joy to teach - most of the time" (!) We were very lucky that his teacher had met similar behaviour before (several years earlier) and suspected the cause of the problem as no-one had a clue before that.