Desperate for advice - out of control 9 year old

[Goldfish]

My youngest ds is so difficult sometimes that I am despairing of what else I can do. For example, I was just on the phone to my sister and ds couldn't pump his bike tyre up properly, I told him I would help when I had stopped talking - it was only a short call. He then shouts at the top of his voice F off, storms upstairs and kicks his bedroom door. This sort of thing happens often. He swears a lot and just doesn't seem to be able to control his temper. Afterwards he says he is sorry and sometimes gets upset but I am not taken in by that anymore as it always happens again. I have tried everything i can think of, no pocket money, early to bed, sent up to bedroom, not allowed out with friends, but nothing takes effect. His brother is so calm and well behaved, total opposite. Ds is so good at school, polite and extemely bright his report said. At home though he reckons his life is Crp, and boring. We have just had 2 weeks in Ibiza and if we had let him he would have ruined it because he was so difficult. On the plus side, when he is good he is really good, very loving. He is really getting me down now though. He seems to think he can say what he wants, say hes sorry and thats it. I can't get him to realise that his behavour is just not acceptable inthe first place. Hasa anyone been through this and got any ideas? All advice gratefully received.

Hi Goldfish

My 8 year old ds is just like this. He is a quiet sensitive boy, but can erupt very quickly and swears, stamps, kicks and refuses to be disciplined.
He has been a problem for the last two + years, will run off if he can't have his own way, or is upset by somebody. He is also good at School, average in most things, but bright in numeracy.
I don't really have any advice for you as our DS doesn't respond to withdrawal of things. Have you tried Eye Q fish oil, it is supposed to help with brain function and behaviour. If things are really bad I offer this, and the threat of it usually stops bad behaviour. Is he into any sport? our DS loves football, so we got him into a team which seems to channel his aggression a bit. I know it is hard but it does help if you can be calm, I know that when he pushes me so hard and I lose it, it all becomes unbearable.
Just this morning we had a big session, and I lost it with him, as he told me to f* off, and afterwards I told him I didn't want to see him or talk to him. I made it clear that I love him, but don't like him when he behaves like it.
Also I know this sounds daft, but I do a good behaviour chart and also make him to what I call school work, ie literacy/numeracy. It all sounds daft, but there is no magical solution, you just have to try and find something which will ease the problem.

HTH

K

Thanks for that kkgirl. You have made me feel so much better knowing that I am not alone. Ds does love football and he is in a 4 day tournament next week so that maybe help him get rid of some agression. I have not tried the oil but that is a thought,also the chart is a good idea. Like you I do make it clear that I love him, but sometimes I do not like him. Maybe it is male hormones or something. When he was 3 or 4 he was so small but now he is getting really strong and big. He already takes an adult size 7 shoe and weighs more than his brother. The thing is if you do say go to your bedroom and stay there and he says no,what can you do anyway if he is stronger than you? Obviously different tactics are in order.

Hi Goldfish! My ds1 tends to be rather unpredictable and fiery too. He's only just 7, but I do sometimes worry how he'll be when he is older. He made massive improvements in controlling his temper when he was aged about 5. But his emotional control seems to have plateaued again now. And he still seems to lack maturity in this area. (Btw he is also very tall for his age.)

Anyway, recently a friend on here recommended a book, which I have found very helpful. It's called the explosive child . I got hold of a copy through the library, and it only cost me 65p!

The book helped me in a number of ways:

1. It makes you realise there are children much, much worse than yours
2. It suggests that for some children ignoring a meltdown and then sending them to their room afterwards is not actually achieving anything positive. And that taking steps (lots of helpful suggestions in the book*) to try and prevent the meltdowns in the first place is the best way forward.
3. It also goes on to suggest ways of helping children learn these skills they are lacking.

*For instance when ds1 is heading for a major flip-out if I can identify the cause I now say " I understand that you are feeling frustrated because ds2 has wrecked your Lego model; what do you think we should do now". It sounds really corny and stilted, I know. But for us it has a dramatic effect. Rather than 'explode' at this point, with that small intervention he usually dissolves in tears and we are able to talk through to a resolution.

Obviously the target is for him to be able to do this for himself, without intervention from anyone, and I'm not sure how we get to that point. But I do feel that this book has given us some good tips and we are making some progress in the right direction again.

HTH

Sorry that was so long.

Thanks Roisin, I have just looked at the link and the book looks brilliant. I was reading the reviews and parents said it changed their lives. I am definitely going to ring the library tomorrow to see if they have a copy or can get me one. It seems so simple really, if you can diffuse the situation and so then avert the bad tempered tantrum life would run a lot smoother and the whole family would benefit.

Goldfish

Thats the thing which has kept me sane, the fact that other people are in the same boat. I find it very hard, and the times when I lose my temper and have smacked him,(which is something I don't agree with, and don't want to do) I hate myself and am so upset, it all becomes a vicious circle.
I often don't like my son, although I love him completely, and its really hard, today he said he hated me and didn't need me and that hurts, but tonight he is his loving self again,and actually said sorry to me and told me he loved me.
Same problem as you, if I tell him to go to his room he is defiant until the nth degree.

Remember when he was about five and we had a hysterical session with him, we were trying to ignore him and found him standing no hands on top of the stairgate at the top of the stairs!! The paediatrian insists that he doesn't have any disorders as he was so good for the 30 minutes we were with her.

Cling on, don't forget that you are not alone and I am going to try to get hold of that book as well.
If you want to email me when it gets too much, feel free

kkgirl, your day sounds just like mine. Like you say it is so helpful to know that you are not alone. I have sent my email address to you via contact another talker so if you ever feel like a chat let me know.Hope that is ok. Never done it before as I am quite new to MN.

Goldfish

Nor me, but I think we could console and sympathise with each other, and it makes me feel better to know other people understand and can relate to the situation.

I'm off to bed now because I feel like a wrung out rag, dd has just stomped off slamming the door, because she doesn't want to go to bed.

Happy days!!!!!!!!!

Goodnight kkgirl. Thanks so much for your support and hope we both have a better day tomorrow

I haven't reached this stage yet so unable to offer advice but you have my sympathies and do hope someone else can offer some sound advice.

Thanks sportyspice, I remember when one of my sisters dss was this age and I thought mine won't be like that. Little did I know. But then all children are different. My other ds is nothing like ds2 but he is difficult sometimes in other ways. Still no one ever said having children was easy.

But I must add that I still wouldn't be without them.

That book sounds really worth reading roisin. I know you've mentioned it before. I really must look out for a copy. My oldest (10) can get really defiant with me - he'd not too bad most of the time but sometimes his temper flares up. Now he's approaching teenagerhood, there might be a little bit of hormonal action kicking in too.

I find he's most likely to get angry when I am not giving him 100% of my attention. He always seems to need so much of it, and always has. If I am right there next to him, I am more likely to be able to divert a strop before it happens, but I can't spend my life holding his hand!! I think if my son was more self reliant, his temper would improve a lot. Hopefully as he grows up, his self reliance will improve.

Anyway, I still do time outs with him - send him to his room. If he won't go I tell him I will phone his father. In fact, if he persistantly ignores me in any other way, that's my ultimate threat. It always stops him in his tracks. I hate having to involve another adult and make my husband out to be the 'baddie' but at least it works.

I have just rung my local library and have resereved a copy of the book. Someone else is already waiting for it so its obviously well recommended. Thanks for that roisin.

Goldfish

Just wondered how it is all going?

Hi kkgirl. Thanks for asking. things have been a lot better this week. Ds2 has had his football tournament this week and has been coming home exhausted but a lot happier. He has had the odd temper tantrum - this morning he said he was not going to football and started to kick the door etc. but I persuaded him to go as it was the final and now he is glad he did as they won. I am
still waiting for a copy of the book but I reckon that will take a while. Dh is home from work for 2 weeks now and ds2 is normally better then, though that is not always the case. We shall see. How are things with you? I hope you have had an easier time as well.

Goldfish

Glad things are a bit better for you.

Well, in general things are ok, although we went to London for the weekend and ds2 ran off in Selfridges. We were in HMV and him and ds1 wanted to buy Yu Gi Oh cards, they have 100's of them and only fight and argue over them, so we said no more and he took off and ran. When he runs it isn't off round the corner, he ran and ran. I ran after him but had a large back pack on, and after I had run after 200 yds, I couldn't see him at all, by then I was really worried, because he doesn't come back, he gets so cross that he doesn't think at all. DH caught up with me, after he rounded the other two up, and I told him that DS was lost. Luckily DS had been hiding behind a bookcase, because otherwise in London, in a strange department store, I dread to think how we would have retrieved him. It was very scary, and I said to him afterwards, I would rather he stood there and shouted, or raged or whatever, than taking off like that. Luckily he has been ok since, but you can never let your guard down with him, because he is so unpredictable

I have an 8 yo like this. Second boy out of 3, which I think accounts for some of it. His temper is truly fearful and, much as I love him, there are times when I'm much happier that he's not around. I've considered anger management classes, but he can control his temper when he chooses to. He has no trouble at school, although they are aware that he has a temper, and I am told by his teacher than he realises what he is like and takes great pains to ensure that he doesn't lose his temper there. So I'm left with the conclusion that he chooses to lose it at home - possibly because it's a safe environment (bit of a back-handed compliment there). Much of the time, I talk to him very calmly (discovered to my cost that if I shout back everything just escalates), or try to ignore the bad stuff, praising him and giving him lots of attention when he isn't demanding it in such a dreadful way. There are times when I can't ignore it as it is seriously affecting the rest of the family.

I'm hoping that he will calm down/grow out of it in time, but I can't bank on that so am trying to find solutions.

Freckle

Know how you feel, although my ds is the baby as he is the second twin. Also once he goes off on one, we cannot reason with him at all, he is in a blind rage and even once he is calm again, he cannot explain it. He is also good at school, in fact a model pupil, very quiet, shy and well behaved.
Also it does affect our family, although tbh the other two are very strong minded and can be very stroppy and argumentative as well, although they don't take off like him.
I am beginning to think it is down to the way we behave/try to parent them. As much as we love them, they are ungrateful and uncaring about each other, ie try their hardest to start arguments about nothing etc.

Anyway enough of my ranting.

I agree that parenting can have some effect on how children behave, but I also believe that nature very often has a hand in it too. I try to raise my boys in the same way, but they are all different so my parenting style clearly isn't the only factor.

Somebody mentioned a book The Manipulative Child, which I ordered before going on holiday. It arrived while I was away and now sports some very fetching teeth marks where the dog tried to eat it. Fortunately it is still readable, so I'll be having a look at it when I can.

The problem with many of these books is that they seem to use as examples children who have some condition or other, such as Aspergers, etc. Clearly these children have a reason for their behaviour. I don't see what reason my son has for behaving the way he does other than a desire to really upset the whole family. The fact that he controls his temper out of the family environment shows that his is not a case of an uncontrollable emotion.

The rest of the time he is very loving, caring, sporting, etc. ,etc. I just hate the way he makes me dislike him a lot of the time (whilst still loving him to pieces).

Hello Goldfish

I am having problems with my dd - see sometimes I don't like my daughter thread.

Just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one. Will read your thread with interest, hoping that some suggestions will help me too.

Hi kkgirl, sorry to hear about your ds in London. I could imagine mine being exactly the same. Freckle, I know what you mean about tempers being truly fearful Don't you wonder what will they be like when they are teenagers? Hoperfully our dss will have a bit more control then. Golds, I have read your thread with interest. I have never had any bedtime troubles with either of my dss. Ds2 always falls asleep instantly but then he wakes up early and is tired and bad tempered. I have been wondering about the additives in food and drink. I will be keeping an eye on your thread as well. Good luck with your dd.

I keep myself sane by telling myself that they are having the teenage years early, my other ds and dd behave like teenagers with the surly back chat and sulkiness, so maybe they'll be sweetness and light at 13!!!!

We can only hope so kkgirl! I have just had a horrendous time round town getting coats for school. Ds 1 had the first coat he tried on. Ds2 was sulking and swearing under his breath though he eventuually did get one, even though he reckons he wasn't . We hadn't planned on buying for coats, just saw some in the sales so at least I didn't get the sulks leading up to it. He is now in a foul mood, but whats new? One more day and they go back to school. Trouble is I go back to work as I work in a school. No peace for the wicked.

Hi there,
My DS is 10 and showing behaviour very much like you have all described.He has always been sensitive and erratic.The problem I find now is I constantly worry my 18 month old DS will be around on one of his "No Way,F..K off mother"momentry lapses.They dont happen all the time, but when they do it leaves me and my husband traumatised.I just worry my DS will pick up on these words and find it funny to immitate her much worshipped brother.
I think I too better get that book.