Yr 6 DS - we're at wits end. Any suggestions?

[Smashtheglass18]

Any help out there? Sorry it’s a long post but anybody who knows about behaviour please read! Background - eldest DS age 11 is ruining our family at the moment (last year or two) and DH and me getting really down and just don't know what to try next. Well behaved at school, polite, 'lovely boy' most of time, academically good teachers love him but does struggle with peer friendships a bit – ie is unpopular (according to him) we’ve seen evidence of it too but teachers says he fine just a bit “quirky”. Most people who are not v close family think he's great which he is 95% of time and we think he's great too and love him very, very much. But Jekyll and Hyde at home at least once weekly when he is like a different child. Had him checked at doctors - no conditions that explain it. GP says its pre-teen brain changes. We've sought support from social services over last year as things getting so bad and I have been physical with him a few times in desperate angry moments (which I am totally ashamed of and 100% know that is not the answer. A flaming about that on here will not help us right now). He is currently seeing school nurse for 'chats' about his feeling etc. We've been on a parenting course (at our own request). Trying our best to do all the right stuff re rewards, praising when good, special time together etc. but I must admit we do lose it with him sometimes as it’s just so hard (ie we sometimes shout and get physical eg dragging him – not hitting him). What can you do when you have asked a child to do something 20 times, they're ignoring you, you've made threats re consequences (which we do always keep), and it’s something you can't let go? To give a typical example which happened last night: he wouldn't come in from garden to get ready for bed. We’d had a lovely Sunday eve BBQ , little brother getting ready for bed and we’d all come in after clearing up. We let it go for a while and left him skulking in garden (from past experience with him this sometimes works when he is getting in one of his ‘funny moods’ and ignoring can sometimes avoid a major incident) but eventually it was getting too late (ie 9.30 pm on school night). We can't leave him out there all night so eventually I forcibly get him in the house (ie drag him up the garden). He still won't get ready for bed. So I do the consequence I threatened - ie remove his favourite bedtime toy and say he can have it back when ready and in bed. 10pm by this stage. (Although age 11 he is still very attached to favourite toy). Then had 2 hours NON STOP (I'm not exaggerating) of him following me/DH round every room in house repeating (whining) " Can I have toy x" over and over again, literally HUNDREDS of times. It’s like mental torment. Ignored him, said loads of times very calmy, " yes you can have it back when ready for bed". DS was focussing more on me (as I removed the toy) so eventually I told DH to go to bed (I’m more of a night owl than him and was still doing domestic jobs to try and distract myself from what DS was doing.). Ended up at 12.30 am with DS spent, sobbing but still no remorse. Eventually he did go to bed and I gave him the toy back. Had a chat, hug etc about it all. He always regrets it in the end and say he doesn’t know why he does these things and gets in his funny moods. This eve he’s kicked off already, wouldn’t get out of car when I tried to drop him at swimming lesson so I could pick his brother up and join him few minutes later. Despite being told to multiple times. I can’t face another evening like last night with him.

PS also crossed a line last night as he was so angry (at me removing toy) that he punched me in chest. His face was so red i thought he was going to explode. Almost (weirdly) sounds funny writing that lie like something from Roald Dahl book but it wasn;t of course - just really, really sad. Crying my eyes out typing this.

line not lie

I would look at getting this book. www.amazon.co.uk/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically/dp/0061906190?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Also have a look at PDA, Aspergers see if any of this fits.

The bit about being good in school and then explosive at home sounds like he is controlling himself at school but is exhausted by this so at home feels able to release his feelings.

I second the advice to read around autism, Aspergers and PDA (pathological demand avoidance).

Children with ASD, especially those who are more academically able, can be angelic in school and flip at home. Like butterfly says, this is because fitting in and getting everything right in school is exhausting and stressful, they can experience overwhelming sensory overload and they don't feel safe enough there to express their true emotions. This can lead to a loss of control when they get home and emotions that are really hard to manage on school nights.

Quite often these children don't have a good understanding of their own emotions and the root of them so, although they feel anxious, stressed, overloaded and/or exhausted, they aren't necessarily aware of it or aware of the reasons behind those feelings.

Because the root of the behaviour is distress, managing it with sanctions doesn't help. The patience you demonstrated last night was perfect but, if he does have an autism spectrum disorder, taking away his comfort object would have been unhelpful. It was removing a coping strategy and making an unexpected change which added to an already disrupted routine. This would make it harder for him to comply with your instruction to get ready for bed, not easier.

Go easy on yourself for getting angry. We're allowed to make mistakes and behaviour that you don't understand is impossible to manage and infuriating. You certainly don't deserve a flaming.

The strategies recommended for PDA are useful for lots of other children too.

Try to identify some triggers, e.g. unexpected (or expected) changes to routine, last minute changes to plans, busy or noisy environments, misinterpreting jokes or sarcasm, unexpected touches (people brushing past or bumping into him), going to unfamiliar places, people visiting the house, new foods or foods with textures he finds difficult.

Also try keeping to a very predictable undemanding routine for a while. Avoid surprises, visitors, new foods, changes in routine and make sure he knows what is happening in advance as much as possible to see if the more challenging behaviour diminishes.

That may all be very wide of the mark but it's well worth thinking about if you're at your wit's end, which you clearly are.

Thanks both for taking time to read and repl. I've ordered the book this eve and looked up PDA which I'd never even heard of. Some of symptoms do sound like him but others very wide of mark. Goldmandra some of your description above does really rings bells actually. He's gone to bed fine tonight thankgoodness and second half of evening was ok after rocky start. Like treading on eggshells with him at moment. Advice re his toy is useful - he totally freaked about it which was weird when its a small childs cuddly toy and he's this age but what you say above explains that reaction.

You’ve had some great advice already on here OP. I don’t think it’s weird that he still wants his cuddly toy. My DS is 14 and has only just stopped taking his teddy to Scout camp, still sleeps with him at home. Most of his friends are the same.

I’m sure you do this already, one thing that works for our DD is lots of notice. I’d have to tell her when we planned the BBQ exactly what the plans were including what time we’d pack up and when she was expected to get ready for bed.

Sounds very very similar to my son who is nearly 11. He has a diagnosis of ADHD (not suggesting this is what your son has) and the behaviours you are experiencing are just like those we see. It’s relentless and exhausting.
Last night was awful here to.
Happy to talk via PM if you want.

Hey OP, this sounds really tough on all of you! I have a pretty demanding 6yo DS and some of thos behaviour resonates. I'm no expert but I wondered if, because you are all at your wits end - understandably, things are getting heated / stubborn too fast (pre-emptively) and then that results in these long drawn out and exhausting 'fights'.

Would it have worked for example to have sat on your own quietly in the garden, not really focussing attention on DS, after the others had gone in? I'm wondering if he might have drifted over to you and had a few minutes calm / quality time and then come in with you? Or at bedtime when he was following you, what if you had gone and sat on his bed, would he follow you there? Then maybe read a story together or have a chat and then get into bed?

I realise these options require the patience of a saint and are not always practical but with my DS it's almost always about his brain being all over-scrambled and over-stimulated and generally ovet-tired. Quiet one to one time sometimes does the trick.

Good luck!