Tips please on setting 'rules' at meal times.

[Northerner]

My ds is 2.4 and has never been a good eater. Meal times are usually a real battle, however we have turned a corner recently and things aren't so bad. But, to make things easier at home, I admit to letting him eat in front of the TV as getting him to sit at the table wasn't an option IYKWIM.

However we went to BIL's for tea yesterday and when it was time to dish up kids meals, their 2 sat down at table and ate really well (as they always do), my ds refused to sit down and therefore ate nothing. Their 5 year old said 'that's cause your ds only eats bad food' so I think that family members must be saying this because a 5 yaer old wouldn't say this. My ds will always eat nuggets, chips, fish fingers etc, but won't eat 'proper' food. This is not from want of trying, I always offer him what we are eating and he goes to nursery 2 days per week and eats everything there so I know he is capable of it.

Where am I going wrong?

How worried are you about his eating habits? If it's really bothering you are you prepared to get "tough" and maybe use some less than PC methods to get the desired results? If you're not that bothered then is it worth getting into?

I don't think 'worried' is the right word. I do make sure he has a healthy diet. He doesn't like 'mushy food' or big dinners, so to avoid issues and to ensure he eats I give him fresh chicken, cheese, bread, cod, tuna as I know he will eat it. He also eats loads of fruit but won't eat veg. I only get stressed about it when we are eating at other people houses and it becomes apparant he is difficult. I'd hate people to be criticising IYSWIM.

so he does eat "proper" food then!

I imagine at 2.4y he is probably able to understand that different rules apply in different places. Do you sit with him when you go to realtives' houses? If he's not used to sitting down at the table at home I think he probably would benefit from having you or DH there whilst they're eating, to "remind" him IYSWIM.

As for the criticism, i think it's unavoidable. DH and i used to get raised eyebrows for being too strict...

But because I kow he won't eat whta we're eating and just give him 'plain' food that I know he will eat - am I pandering to him and creating a fussy eater?

Also he eats everything at nursery, no quibbling. Why there but not at home?

It could be just a phase. DD was very fussy until she was about 4 1/2. She would eat like a sparrow and I began to get a bit concerned, but now she eats every meal like she's not been fed for a week.

Your ds is a lovely happy healthy little boy and by no means underweight (or otverweight!). Don't worry what other people chunter, everyone always has something to say!

Agree with marialuisa that sitting down with him at mealtimes might help - you know the whole 'copy mummy' thing.

What about making it fun? Food shaped like cars, etc, or arranged on the plate to look like a face? You could even try letting him help you prepare it (obviously avoiding the hot oven and sharp instruments), like handing you potatoes out of the bag, or putting sausages on the tray ready to go in the oven?

HTH

xx

Northener, how about a half-way house where you make sure there are at least 2 things he will definitely eat on his plate, e.g. chicken and pasta and then put the "new" food on the plate. Sit with him and cajole him into trying a spoon of the new stuff. DD is older so things like "Barbie eats it" work with her, as do the very un-PC "if you eat those.., I've got some lovely pudding".

yes, you probably have "pandered" to him, but we all pick our battles. I was a horrendously fussy eater, have a brother who lives on chicken nuggets etc. so have been determined (ok anal) about food and mealtimes. It sounds as if you need to gradually widen his list of accepted foods, if you eat with family regularly enough to be troubled by their comments, could you enlist their help? Explain what you ae doing and asking them to make sure there is food available that he will eat, as well as different stuff.

My DD's school has a rule that they must always eat at least 2 things on their plate. They usually get meat, pasta/pots an two veg.

We started following this rule at home with her and my younger DS and it has worked very well. Usually they start tucking into the two things they really want to eat but then forget that they weren't so keen on the other things and hoover them all up.

Its also a good reminder for me to make sure that even if they are having a pasta type dinner to make sure that I cook veg as well (to make sure there are at least 3 things on their plate).

I'm no fan at all of 'children's food' and this approach does make it easier to get them to eat the same as we do.

Northener- I bet he eats whatever at nursery because he's already cottoned on to the fact that there will be no alternative, unlike at home. ds1 was always a v picky eater. Even now he's suspicious of anything in a sauce that isnt familiar or anything new. But persistence and patience, offering no alternatives and sticking to a no pudding rule if no 1st course is eaten has encouraged him to at least try the food in front of him. I follow the same approach with ds2, who is the same age as yours, and he eats absolutely everything as long as I'm doing the spoon work!
Agree that eating together as a family, with no TV, seems to encourage better eating, I always end up eating lunch with my 2, and a small sample at tea time if eating with dh later. We try to eat together as a family at the w/e as its a good time to catch up and chat about the day etc. Distraction seems to be only a short term solution and not easily replicated when you're out and about.

Northener, i try to do as marialuisa said. I always put one thing on that i know she'll like, (even if it's only bread and butter), and she gets whatever dp and i are having now.
Obviously i try to make things she might enjoy too. She is 3.6 and SO picky. Lately however, she's been having a bite of carrot or a dreaded pea!!! They immediately get spat out but i always praise her for trying and think that oneday she might like it.

I would try not to worry about the criticizm though, if it wasn't that it would be something else!!

When you sit or eat with your ds, do you watch him? It's very easy to do unconsciously, to get totally focused on everything the child does, and to watch every movement and every mouthful. I didn't realise that I had been doing that (and still did occasionally) until I saw a couple focussing on their child during a meal on holiday and realised how daunting it was for the child. I also realised that, now having two children, I wasn't able to be so focused on just one during the meal, and, surprise surprise, ds was eating better. Ds often eats better if I'm not around, but I have to be around most of the time!

I think that eating in front of the TV may get the food into him, but doesn't sort out the situation in the long run. I have found that marialuisa's strategies often work (though I'm not so keen on the 'so-and-so likes that' one).

I told ds that the rule was that I wouldn't give him food to eat that I knew he didn't like, but he had to have one spoonful of anything that was on his plate and if he didn't like it then he didn't need to eat it, but if he did like it then he could eat it (alsways include a posititve! )

Sometimes I will divide his meal into thirds and only serve a third at a time so that his plate doesn't seem overwhelmingly full. I make sure that there is something I know he will eat in his meal, and that there is not more than one new or dubious food at a time.

Helping prepare the food is good too. Laying the table works well for us, but grated cheese is the best. If I put a plate of grated cheese on the table and ask ds to sprinkle a little on everyone's dish, he almost always finishes his meal. It's like some sort of magic powder!

Yes prettycandles I do watch him, along with comments such as 'just one spoonful' ' it will make you big and strong' all to no avail. Maybe I should take the pressure off a bit. I have tried letting him help, and I've tried the cheese thing with parmasan on his spag bol - he loved piling the cheese on but still refused to eat it.

Thanks though guys. Some good tips.

Prettycandles-I didn't pretend we were at all PC and we have found that encouraging in-group/out-group associations works well with DD. She is a very girly-girl and worships Barbie, therefore we say that Barbie (her chosen heroine, not ours!) does various things we wish to encourage e.g. brushes her teeth, speaks nicely etc. Barney (her chosen object of ridicule) does undesirable things e.g. eats with his hands, forgets to wash his hands after going to the loo...It probably won't work for much longer, but the "habits2 e.g. eating veg are now set.

For the record I would never use a Real life person to encourage/discourage behaviour.

At 2.4 my ds ate in front of the TV. It got the food into him; it was what worked during a difficult phase in his eating history. Of course it's not the done thing here, and even the nanny I had frowned upon it, but when he was a few months older, and eating better, the TV option was scrapped. We said "You're a big boy now, and big boys have table manners. No TV while eating." And it was the easiest habit in the world to break.

My ds also seemed partial to junk at that age. It was just a bad eating phase for him, and I of course blamed myself.

At nearly 5, ds is a fantastic eater. He's strapping, slender andin spite of living in a philistine house where he was allowed to eat in front of the TVhe was called "the politest boy in the class" by his teachers.

Ignore the criticism: like so much else, manners and good eating habits are a marathon not a sprint. Keep offering the good food, get rid of snacking for a while, and I'm convinced things will improve.

Thanks exptakat that's really cheered me up!

Well, we all eat with our hands here as does a large part of the world. In fact, at some of our familys houses it would be considered rude not to!

Definitely ignore criticism (and I wasn't criticising you, marialuisa, we have also been told off for being too strict).

If nothing 'works' then don't bother yourself about it. The best thing that helped my ds improve his eating was me backing off and doing my best not to fuss.

Toddlers need far less food than we think they do, and a few good meals a week may be all that your ds needs right now. Between the ages of 2.5y and 3.5y my ds gained only 0.5kg. I weighed him on Saturday and was gob-smacked to see that he had put on 2kg in six months, yet he still looks as slender as ever and is only marginally less fussy over his food than he was six months ago.

Sure Hercules, but in our family's culture eating with your hands is a big no-no. School wouldn't be too impressed either. We are teaching DD the rules she needs to navigate her everyday environment, when there are exceptions e.g. chopsticks and lifting bowl to mouth, we explain they are exceptions and TBH the difference in food/presentation tells her that. As a general rule though at 3y5m she shouldn't be eating spag bol with her hands. I said we're anal.

prettycandles-just wanted to explain the processes that work for DD better (as i agree that saying "barbie eats that" sounds awful!). I keep expecting her to turn round and tell us not to be so ridiculous, esp as she recently gave my poor old gran a rather withering "The fimbles aren't real actually, nonna" lecture.

Being pedantic really. Ds eats certain foods with his hands and other foods with knife/fork etc. Has never attempted to eat with hands at school or anywhere else inappropriate.

I guess I was reacting to the chosen object of ridicule and eating with hands comment.

btw I know you didnt mean it to be a racist thing at all!!!!

Have you tried other distractions? We do puzzles and look at books during dinner. DS is a slow eater and gets bored sitting at table. DS also eats everyting put in front of him at childminders - typical! He also eats very little when we go out - it's just too exciting to sit down to eat! I try not to worry and do healthy snacks instead. IMO your DS's diet is not as bad as you think.

I used to offer alternatives which became a problem. Now if he doesn't want what is offered, he has to wait until next meal time. He soon got the message. HTH

I love your Barbie/Barney strategy Marialuisa ... ROFL!

PS Can I send my boys to you for some lessons in table manners? A fortnight should do it!

They are great, non-fussy eaters, but extremely messy. We always eat at the table, and always have. We've never made a big deal about 'table manners', and just assumed that eventually they would learn from our example. (Dh and I are not savages btw.) But it just hasn't happened like that!

I was told this lunchtime that ds is a really good eater and good at meal times. I'm not convinced that he is all that great, but maybe some of the things we do might help (and sorry, I know I will be repeating some bits).

There is never an alternative. I trust ds to know whether he has eaten enough or not. So I assume that if he doesn't touch the food then he is not hungry.

No snacks. DP and I are not really snacking people (we get as fat as we are from our three square meals!), so there is never anything in the house worth snacking on.

DS sits in his highchair to eat. Once he says he has finished he can get down. If this is 10 seconds after sitting up, that's fine, if it is two hours later, that's fine. Once he's got down he stays down (unless it's a big long family get together). He is never allowed to eat standing up - he must always sit down to eat. Food is taken away if he refuses to sit down.

Sometimes I can tell that he is really very very hungry, so I give him pudding first. This helps because it is ready quicker (giving me time to prepare the main course) and it satisfies his hunger so that he is ready to try more adventurous stuff.

He gets attention during mealtimes, but his eating doesn't. In other words we might chat to him (or each other if he's at family meal time), but we don't ever talk about the food apart from to establish whether he has finished and whether he wants any more.

No food is ever labelled good or bad or better than any other. (particularly close to my heart - I still suffer from this labeling - if I was faced with a choice of cottage cheese on rye bread - which I love - or greasy fried chicken - which I also like - I would go for the chicken any time because it has the added attraction of being naughty!)

Looking at this all written down it looks really draconian. But actually mealtimes are a complete breeze for us. We never have any fights or arguments. We used to, when he was first eating, but once we took on the "it doesn't matter how much or how little or what he eats" attitude mealtimes have become very easy, and he eats much better too.

Cheers Hercules, was seriously worried that you had me down for some closet member of the BNP. It sprung into my head as an e.g. of undesirable behaviour because of a conversation we had with her last night, she's not convinced that cutlery is the best thing for eating with but goes along with us...

Roisin-I wouldn't dare. TBH part of the anal table manners thing is because she's so messy given half a chance! seriously though, i don't think she believes us any more, you know that look when they're just humouring you?

northerner - do you eat at the same time? I know you say you offer him what you're having but does that mean actually whilst you're having it? I found this made a real difference - I'm not saying dds eat everything we eat - not by a long shot - but they are more interested and better when we all sit down together for the same food.