DD1 and DD2 playing me up something rotten - am desparing

[gingerbabe]

DD1 (6) and DD3 (3)are doing my head in at the moment. If they are not at each other's throats they are ganging up and mucking about for me - running around in shops, making a complete mess in their rooms, getting up from the dinner table whilst in middle of meal etc etc. You get the idea. DD1 has just started doing that horrible imitiating face (of me) when I tell her off, or even saying 'whatever!' which I didn't think would come for years!

I am a total loss what to do. They egg each other on totally to wind me up. I have tried bribing with treats, but they're not interested, I have tried taking away things but they don't seem bothered. They just seem to get some sort of sadistic pleasure out of me tearing my hair out. I even tried sitting down with the 6 year old and saying what a nicer home environment it would be and how we would all be happy if the two of them just behaved.

I'm probably going about it completely the wrong way, so please please anyone give me some hints on what to do.

what works for me - bad behaviour in shops - we leave. several times we've gone straight home, and she doesn't get taken again til she says she will behave. it makes things difficult at the time but has solved the problem long term. also of course, i try and make it an enjoyable experience for her, eg, i often walk too fast for her and it helps if we stop every now and then.
otherwise you could try the usual discipline stuff, eg, time out.
you say they "wind you up". they get "sadistic pleasure" and you tell them how happy you'd all be if they behaved. that sounds a bit like you think they have power over you. you are the adult and can make the choices, not them.
sorry if this doesn't make much sense, hth, but i am zombiefied at the moment.

gingerbabe, have no words of wisdom, but I am in the same position (mine are 5, 4 and 2 FGS) and will be watching this thread with great interest.

From someone who hasn't got there yet (mine are 4 and 2)... one of those telly parenting programmes used the following technique: start each week with a (small) notional sum of money - say, £1 each. Each time they misbehave, 1p is deducted (with a prior warning for minor misdemeanours, but no warning for truly horrible behaviour, eg really hurting each other or destroying things). Whatever is left at the end of the week, they can keep and spend as they like. The sums sound tiny, but this childcare guru reckoned it was a big motivation, and it did seem to work on the incredibly unruly teenager he was dealing with. To be combined with trying not to lose your rag (I know that's a highly useless thing to say!) - just 'I'm taking away a penny now' in as calm a tone as you can manage. Actually have a big pile of pennies in a jar so that they can see it happening. Don't know if it would work on a three-year-old, but possibly on the older child?

Thanks Rowan1971, might try that. Tried to reward with money if 6 yr old had tidied room at end of day but she wasn't that bothered, but having a jar and taking pennies out of it might be more visually impactful.

Let me know if it does any good! I'm sure I'll have need of something like this in approximately 2 years' time.

gb, i am going to try Rowans idea too. I have a rising 5 and a 3 1/2 year old as well as 18mth old. THe older two are driving us nutty. I hate the fishwife i have become. Family conferences and agreed abehaviours have not worked so will try this.!! You are not alone.

I think it's really important to choose the battles you want to fight. For example, does it really matter if their rooms are a tip? Maybe decide that no it doesn't, so stop fighting that one. Is it absolutely necessary to take them shopping? Could you do it online, at night when they're in bed, while they are at school or wherever? Or try and set up a bit of reciprocal childcare with another mother so you can take turns dashing found the supermarket.
Then, decide on the battles you do what to fight. Zero tolerance on hurting each other (but make sure it is real hurting, not just tussle and howl!) Zero tolerance on disrespect for you or each other or other people's property. Decide on an acceptable level of table manners - making sure it's a level they are capable of maintaining. Explain what you expect of them. The 6 year old is certainly capable of understanding that idea - and the little one will probably go along with her big sister. Maybe even write the rules up on the wall. Than, if the rules are broken, calmly and firmly remove the culprit or culprits to their room for a timed 5 minutes. Keep putting them back if necessary, but every time you do start the timer again. The most important thing is to act calm even if you're boiling with rage. It will work - eventually! Oh, and develop a "blind eye" to turn towards a lot of the low level cheek. They'll stop eventually if they realise you're not going to rise to it. Promise! Good luck.

katelyle speaks a lot of sense!

star charts. That's what I'm going for next. Am going to decide on their worst bits and make them one each.

been meaning to do it for ages

I have decided to go down the take them to the zoo and leave them there route. So far today they have had all their favourite toys taken away, and computer time banned, and been told if they are good they can earn time/toys back. ARGH. Got to get 100 pennies together...or maybe get some more pasta for jars