Getting increasingly concerned

[LJsmum]

I posted last week about my 4 yr old son (thread entitled 'Teacher's comments re: my ds), and it seems there was another incident at preschool yesterday. The teachers had asked the mothers to send some fruit along so they could cut it up for the kids to make fruit kebabs. DS isn't a bit fruit eater, but he likes pineapple & apple, so I sent along some fruit that I thought he would eat. When I went to pick him up from preschool, he said that the teacher had made him sit in her office because he refused to eat any of the fruit (he was happy to make the kebabs, but didn't want to eat one). When he refused to eat it, she removed the other fruit from the stick and told him to just eat the pineapple, but he still refused and apparently he started to get a bit upset at this point (shouted at her I think). So she made him sit in her office while the other kids went inside for a story, & she said he was very upset by this because he really wanted to listen to the story. Personally I don't see the big deal about MAKING him eat the fruit, but I AM concerned about the fact that he was the only one out of 20 kids who refused to eat any of it, and he seems to have no qualms about standing up to the teacher. I was at the preschool last week and I heard him yell at her when she reprimanded him for something - none of the other kids seem to answer back when they get into trouble. Other times she says he's fine and can be very helpful.

She has commented to me a couple of times now that he sometimes 'digs his heels in' when she tells him to do something, and feels that this may become a bigger problem when he goes to school (not doing what he is told). I am really concerned about him being defiant enough to stand up to an adult when he doesn't want to do something, but I'm also wondering why he can't just do what all the other kids are doing (as in the fruit incident). All the other kids seem so compliant in comparison to him.

Apart from that, as I said in my last post he seems to be fine socially (plays/interacts well with the other kids), loves many of the activities they do at preschool, both indoor and outdoor, and his retention of information is quite amazing at times. I have now made an appointment with a paediatrican at the end of August to try and have him assessed. It makes me feel terrible that his behaviour is obviously standing out enough for the teacher to mention it to me. He doesn't like change very much, in that he likes things to be familiar and likes things to be done in the same way, but at the same time he loves doing spontaneous things like going away for a holiday or visiting places he's never been before. I am wondering if discipline has anything to do with his defiance, as he spends a lot of time with his grandparents who let him get away with a lot more than dh and I do... perhaps having disclipline at home and not having any at his grandparents', has lead to some of this behaviour.

I'm grasping at straws now (and rambling - sorry)but I really don't know what to think. Sometimes he seems so normal and is such a great kid, but other times his behaviour seems to be different to that of other children his age - enough to be singled out. Wish I knew the answers

message withdrawn

He sounds normal from what you say but I think the teacher is very wrong for trying to MAKE him eat something he doesn't want to eat. Lots of kids 'dig their heels in' and don't do what they're told, he's 4 ffs! Most 4yos aren't docile and compliant, well, my ds certainly wasn't! Your ds sounds lovely to me and his teacher sounds like a bit of a witch. If I were you I'd go and sit in a few times and see what you think of the pre-school in general and her teaching/discipline style in particular. Making a 4yo sit in an office because he won't eat some fruit sounds waaaaaay over the top to me.

I've just re-read your post - how mean of her to make him miss the story for not eating some fruit! Would you do that at home? I wouldn't.

Twiglett I spent several hours at the preschool last week because all the mothers have 'rostered' days to help out. To be honest I didn't think his behaviour was out of the ordinary except for 'talking back' to the teacher once when she told him to do something. Even when he talked back to her, he wasn't really angry/upset with her, I think he was doing it for effect IYKWIM. Other than that, he seemed quite well behaved and played like most of the other children. He seemed reasonably popular with some of the other kids, so I'm really confused. One thing I did notice was that he likes to get on with things, in other words he doesn't like wasting his time doing things he doesn't want to do - eg. all the kids have to sit on their mats while they have morning tea & he's supposed to wait until all the other kids are finished before he gets up to go & play. He finds the 'waiting' quite hard to do and tends to fidget a bit more than the other kids once he's finished eating.

He does shout at dh & I sometimes when he's being told off (which I don't tolerate), and he does this to my parents on occasion if he doesn't get his own way. As far as other adults, he doesn't seem perterbed by them at all and will go and talk to anybody, whether it's an adult or child. Perhaps he comes across as a bit defiant (sorry I can't think of a better word to describe it) and perhaps this is what bothers the teacher. Otherwise he's always had a very happy nature and has always been very social... until perhaps the last six months, we've had very few behavioural problems with him.

Well in that case, I REALLY think it sounds like her problem, not your ds. Can you change pre-school?

Wickedwaterwitch I crossed posts with you. I agree that she shouldn't have made him eat it, in fact I'm very surprised that she tried to force him. She's been good up until now and I'm wondering if she's starting to get irritated by him for defying her at times. I'm getting upset thinking about it because I know how good he can be, but I don't know why he's having the problems he's having. No one seems to like a child who doesn't fall into line all the time like they're expected to

LJsmum, I haven't read your previous thread, but I agree that it was over the top to try and make him eat the kebab and then make him sit in the office because he refused. It is how would the teacher like it if she were told to eat something she really didn't want to and then punished because she refused?! I think it is a shame that a fun activity was taken so seriously by the teacher and spoilt for your son who sounds lovely. I wish my son would sometimes speak up for himself!

Do you think there's a bit of a peronaliy clash? At school I was generally well behaved providig I liked the teacher. If I didn't then I could be really difficult and quite stubborn.

I was a very obedient, very very good student as a child, but if a teacher tried to make me do something that I didn't see the sense in doing (ie eating fruit if I wasn't hungry) I would certainly have refused quite emphatically. I still remember a montessori nursery that I was sent to when I was 4 or so and they tried to make me sit cross legged during reading time and sleep during nap time. I was happy to sit with my legs folded under me, but found it uncomfortable (still do) to sit cross legged and I just wasn't sleepy at nap time (still can't nap during the day). I was so vehemently unhappy about the nursery trying to force me to do these things that my parents took me out after a week and put me in another nursery where I had no problems at all.

It really sounds to me like your ds is just not appreciated for not being a sheep. I would find him another nursery before some permanent damage happens (ie his natural enthusiasm and resolve gets destroyed).

havent read your other post but have to say really really strongly that i agree with everyone else how dare she punish your child in such a strong way for something to minor i do think it is well and truly over the top. I for one would be pleased that my child was prepared to stand up for his own rights even at four. It's not a matter of being disobedient or rude but it is a human right not to be force fed!!! If i were you i would be proud that your child has a mind of its own and so long as he keeps within fair, kind, polite, boundaries then i would not want to curb his own spirit. But then again that comes from a person that spent most of her life in a battle of wills with her parents. Some kids are just too strong and wont be broken, and do you want to anyway??? Hope this helps but your child sounds great just the way he is!!!!!