Another 'issue' in the boring saga of my 4 year old ... please forgive me .... I need advice, AGAIN!!!

[Ghosty]

Smee again

Sorry to bore the pants off you all but something else has happened with DS that I need advice about.
On Thursday last week he came home with a bruised and fat upper lip. He said he did it at Kindy but didn't want to tell me how. I meant to check with the teachers the next day but I forgot.
On Friday when he had a bath in the evening he cried out that he didn't want to put his foot in the bath. I looked at his toe and it was bleeding. He said he did it at Kindy. That he hit it on a wooden post while playing. I asked him if he told the teacher and he said that Sarah (one of the teachers) had come to him because he cried.
So this morning when I took him I spoke to Carol, the head, and just said that I thought I had missed the accident sheet last week to sign off DS's two accidents. She obviously didn't know what I was talking about and went to look for the sheet. There was no record of DS's bumps. She asked Sarah who said she didn't remember but said she would investigate.
When I picked DS up she said that she had asked him and he had told her that he had hurt his toe by kicking his bedroom wall.
Now, there is NO way that DS would hurt himself in my vicinity without making a song and dance about it ... he really really does make the biggest fuss ever if he does the tiniest thing so I know he didn't do it at home. But of course I was embarrassed.
So I confronted DS and he told me that he had lied to Sarah and promised me that he had hurt himself at Kindy. We had a big talk about 'lying' and 'telling the truth' ... but I don't know how much he really understood.
Dilemma ...
A) I know that DS DID NOT bump his lip or hurt his toe at home .... for reasons detailed above. So why would he lie to the Kindy teacher? How do I tackle the issue of 'lying' to DS? He has never lied before.
B) Do I kick up a fuss with the Kindy for not recording his bumps and not even being aware of them?

I hate this bit of parenting .... after 10 years of teaching I now know what it is like to be on this side of the fence and I really don't like it!

Should I get a grip and forget it and stop fussing at what seems like every little thing at the moment???

Apologies for length of post if you have even got this far ....

Ta ...
Gxxx

Does he think he would be trouble for being hurt at kindy? I'm sure I remember thinking strange things like that at age 4 (I remember being terrified of my friend's mum for example- who I knew extremely well - because she broke a window with a ladder). I also remember being too scared to ask for help doing my braces up after going to the toilet- again aged 4. (why on earth did my mum dress me in braces? lol)

Maybe have a word with Sarah- explain the situation and ask her to keep an eye on it.

I posted a few weeks ago about my ds1 aged 4 and half lying and it was a shame because only one person replied and I found it a difficult situatuion to deal with. I have tried to explain the "crying wolf" story but not sure either if it sunk in. I have come to the conclusion that if I keep asking my son questions about a certain situation, he will tend to listen to the way I ask
the question.I think that if he feels that he is going to get in trouble (even if he isn't) he will try to say the answer he thinks that I want to hear. Does that make sense? I hope it does. For e.g. I came out of nursery with him the other day and he I had a photo of him stuck to his work folder. When we got home, it had fallen off and when I asked him questions about it, he said that he had thrown it in the bushes, at nursery, then at grandmas house then at the shopping centre carpark we had parked in that afternoon. I think I had probed him too much to try and re cap on our steps that afternoon. The next day I went to nursery and a mum had found it in the building by the door and had handed it in to one of the carers. I think he thought that I had asumed he had taken it and he said that he had because he thought that is what I wanted to hear. What I tend to do now is not to ask him too many questions and try not to over react ( as I do so often) to certain situations. Just so that he feels that mummy won't explode or ask him too much. I hope you can make a little sense of my babble, I know what I am trying to say but whether it looks clear on this post I don't know.

Thanks Jimjams and Moosh ...
I think you are both right. I think DS told Sarah what he thought she wanted to hear. I had a word with Carol this morning and we decided to let it go as 'one of those mysteries' but to keep an eye on lying.
To me, lying is worse than fighting .... I would rather DS had an honest tumble with someone than lie ... I can't bear liars.
Moosh, it is a difficult situation isn't it? You don't want to come down on them for everything yet on the other had you don't want to let stuff go ...
Like I say, this bit of parenting I really don't like!

Don't worry about lying its a developmental stage. DS2 can't lie yet so admits to everything- which I must admit to finding funny "Who ate the cake?" "me I did it". If ds1 ever lies then I will be overjoyed as it would be quite an achievement for him. 4 is bang on the right age for lying- I think they soon start to get the hang of it- and some lying is good- "does my breath smell?" "Do I look fat?" "does it taste ok?" If you can't lie you're always going to be socially inept- but they have to practice to get that good iyswim.

Ghosty, just a thought but he won't have got the hang of this lying business yet so you'll probably get honest answers to questions like "have you got a tummy ache because you want a cuddle from me/whatever?" or "would chocolate/xyz make it better/go away?" and so you might be able to get to the bottom of things that way. I wouldn't make too big a deal of it - tell him he needs to tell you what happened but I think the boundaries between his innner fantasy world (iykwim!) and real life are quite blurred atm because he's so little. So he isn't being as devious as you might think.

I agree with all the advice given here and you have my sympathy.
My ds went through a similar stage at playgroup and when I got to the bottom of it I found out he was being 'bullied' by an older boy, because ds had ridden the toy police motorbike which the other boy felt was his!
Do you think he is having a 'problem' with another child there?

Hi Bunglie ...
There may be something in what you say. There is a boy at Kindy that I believe is causing DS a bit of grief. A few times he has said things like, "xxx is the meanest boy at Kindy because he wouldn't let me play" and the other day he told me that xxx called him a 'loser' which upset him. Other mums have also seen DS in a couple of scraps with xxx ... one mum, who live opposite the kindy told me she saw DS pushed up against the fence by xxx and she went over and stopped him doing it.
I don't want to make an issue about this other boy as the last thing I want is DS to go to him and say, "My mum says .... " but I have told him to play with someone else if the other boy is being horrible to him.
This other boy is going to leave Kindy in a couple of weeks to start schools so I have to say I am counting the days!

Jimjams and WWW ... you are both right ...
I don't think DS really understands the meaning of lying and telling the truth yet ... I guess it is just a phase that we have to work through.
Jimjams ... oh how I loved that honest stage! I used to crack up when DS would do something and own up to it straight away ...

Just to stick my oar in. My ds is 4 too and has lied on occasions, generally when he thinks he will get into trouble . I think the only thing you can do is re-iterate that lying is wrong and give him a chance to tell the truth, even if it takes a day or two. You will probably find if you tell him that he won't be in trouble if he tells the truth, it will come out pretty quickly.
For us we feel it is important to give him an "amnesty" at this age, otherwise you create a child who will lie to avoid getting into trouble. Let's be honest........we all lie to some extent don't we!!??
As long as he realises he has a chance to reverse his story and also, that you are prepared to believe him and give him that chance, I think the respect side will develop as he gets older and he'll realise there isn't the need to lie. (Here's hoping anyway.....I am fumbling in the dark too )

sorry to stick my oar in but......!!! Doesnt anyone think that there may be an issue with the fact that the teachers are not monitoring the kids behaviour and it would seem clear that there is bullying going on from what you have reported. I personally would be more concerned with the fact that no one is really keeping the little mites under control and protecting the weaker ones. I think the lying is purely normal and development but sorry for me i would be really really pissed off that a fat lip goes undocumented and that the bullying does not appear to be addressed either!!! Hope to help not inflame. My little on now also 4.5 was really badly bitten at nursery about a year ago and the nursery did instil a watch, shadow and separate policy with the culprit that was bullying mine!! Good luck