Worried about Autism at early age: hand twisting, etc.

[mommysandrine]

Hello,

I'm worried about my very young son Ethan, who is 5 months old. My husband is beginning to become concerned, but is probably worried more about me, as my mood is going up and down by the hour based on how my son is currently behaving. I'm obsessively searching the Internet for early warning signs and early treatment options...but almost none of the material pertains to one so young as my son so I'm feeling rather stuck for now. The more I read and the older Ethan gets, though, the more convinced I am that something is wrong. My heart aches, and I really need some support.

Ethan is capable of engaging in interaction for minutes at a time, and he's advanced in terms of motor skills (sits up unaided already, etc.) However, he's showing some signs which worry me very much. I'm most worried about not being able to keep his attention without extra effort, and the way he's "crawling" early with his legs but pushing his face against the floor while making noises. I'm also worried about the way he scratches things and puts his thumb against things, twisting his hand around as he does so.

Other things: 1.) Often it's hard to get or keep his attention unless I am making silly faces or sounds, or eating, talking on the phone, or brushing my teeth; 2) He is doing lots of things that seems to be stimulating his sense of touch to a strange degree: pushing his thumb against something and rotating his wrist around it or popping his knuckle back and forth, crawling with his legs while pushing his face against the floor and making noises, "hitting" things alot and pushing off against things with his legs, including me sometimes while breastfeeding; 3) He rarely is still...constantly in motion; 4) He is totally attracted to "things" of all kinds: books, cameras, toothbrushes, etc. If I am holding him he will often lean over and reach out his arms towards something several feet away. Everyone is commenting how smart he must be as he is so engaged with the word at 5 months old...but I'm scared; 5) He's not making any consonant sounds, he does little "talking" to me but lots towards "things", he's not a good sleeper (lots of short naps), he had a "week suck" when he was born, and his head is in the 25th percentile.

I'm trying to stay away from the Internet, but I just can't. I think I have bookmarked every page out there having to do with causes and symptoms, and have now moved on to treatment...though no one's talking about 5-month olds. If he has any kind of developmental issue, I want to get him help ASAP. On the bright side, at least I'll have found it early. I don't think I would have noticed much odd had I not been I was keeping my eye out for it because I had been worried about the stress I was under during my pregnancy, the influenza shot I had, and the filling I lost while pregnant. I know there's a lot of quackery out there regarding autism, but I'm still worried.

I'd love to hear from parents whose kids once did what my son's doing (and hear whether they went on to have development issues or not) and others who have similar concerns, advice, or information.

Thanks in advance.

good post stf, I worry a bit but nothing like this much about my 16 mos DD and I have a DS who is severely autistic, sister with Aspergers and cousin with son with autism. Its true that you will deal with it if it happens as you will have to and this worrying is just making you miserable. Without being rotten to you, it does seem that YOU need some support rather than your DS.

mommysandrine - hope you don't mind me butting in, but you said earlier that you were looking for help with your obsessive thoughts - what sort of help is that?

There is always a very small risk that your son, my son or anybody else's son who is about 5 months is autistic - .e.g. I have the odd thought about - oh is his eye contact good enough etc - the more usual way of dealing with this is to think about this sort of issue very sporadically, and promptly forget about it for a few weeks, rather than to dwell on it and research symptoms on the internet.

For these worries to affect your day to day life on such a level suggests to me that you may be suffering some form of PND/anxiety disorder. These are very treatable with the correct sort of treatment.

I hope you don't feel I sound too harsh. You sound like an excellent caring mother, and it would be a tragedy if anxiety prevented you from enjoying your son's early years.

mummytosteven- The help I'm planning to get for me is to see a counselor with experience with PND. The help I'm planning to get for my son is to seek feedback from this group about my son's behavior and then decide whether to pursue any kind of formal evaluation through the doctor.

strangerthanfiction- Yes, I think my fear is partly based on how I'd cope with a child with autism. I'm not good with stress (clearly) and I fear that might just be too much for me to handle. I'm know that 5 months is way to young for a diagnosis of autism or many other things. It's just that 1) I really feel there's something not right here...like ds's social responsiveness isn't like that of other kids his age, 2) I've seen lots of parents of autistic children say that looking back, there were signs, and 3) I hear early intervention is really important, so I want to be on the ball if need be

prettycandles and others- I do have some contact with other babies. I have lots of contact with a baby a couple months older than ds, and have been to a couple of mtohers groups with babies younger than or the same age as ds. In those instances, the babies have paid much more interest to my son, than the other way around. It's a little scary to me to see a baby look fascinatedly at my son, and have him just pull at their clothing or look briefly at them with a "whatever" attitude. And two of my relatives (who don't know of my fears) have made comments while holding my son of "Why don't you look at me when I talk to you" or "He's got his own agenda, doesn't he?". And my little guy almost never looks at me while feeding or out for a walk. Is this typical? I don't know what to think, as I don't really have much experience with babies. That is the main reason I'm posting to this group...I'm seeking "yes that sounds like something to watch" or "no that sounds typical at that age" kinds of answers from this group, so I can decide whether to pursue this further, or not. I'll look into the PND, but in the meantime I'd love to hear any comments anyone has about what I'm seeing in my son.

Have you looked at the Speical Needs Board? I listed some very early signs that my son showed on a thread there every recently and so did someone else (possibly Coppertop?). I can't see anything in what you've said that indicates ASD so far. I would advise spending some time reading the threads on SN.

I am so sorry you are so worried - and you don't seem to be taking much comfort from what is being said here. Are you really worrying about this at 4:00am?
Can I just re-iterate a few things:

• my sons twisted their wrists (and ankles for that matter) all the time. People used to comment on it and some took the mickey out of them - really it was that 'odd' I read a post on Mumsnet from someone else whose babies rotated their wrists
• ds2 didn't utter his first consonant until past 10 months. In fact hardly made any noises until 10 months
• I took ds2 to the doctor's a while back and they had a ceiling fan. He was fascinated by it for quite a while as he hadn't seen one before
• my sons, as babies sometimes made good eye contact and sometimes didn't . All depended on their mood
• they answered to their name but not all the time
• it is excellent that he is interested and reaching out for things
• sitting up unaided at 5 months is excellent!
• ds2 is not really interested in other babies and prefers to do his own thing. I think a lot of babies are like that

Your son is only 5 months and I am sure you have nothing to worry about. Autism is not diagnosed until way past one (and probably a lot later, jimjams?) and so you have months and months of possibly driving yourself mad with this.

Nothing that your son is doing sounds unusual or cause for concern. HTH and PLEASE enjoy your weekend..... x and a hug for a worried Mum

Agree about reading the SN boards. And also wth STF - there really isn't any point worrying. If your child had autism (although nothing you have said has worried me at all) you would cope because people do.

mommysandrine, there's lots of support and ideas here, but I wanted to specially respond to your mention of the importance of early intervention.

The stress on early intervention can actually produce the worst of the anxieties (trust me, I know) - leaving one with the ghastly double-bind feeling of "if there's something wrong, it's not your fault; but if there's something wrong, and you don't pick it up and start dealing with it AT ONCE, it will be your fault for ever".

But please do try to understand that the stress on early intervention is not there to make deeply responsible parents like you feel guilty; and I would guess that the reason you can't find anything for 5-month-olds on the internet is because no early intervention programme ever has been devised for that age - so you are genuinely not neglecting your son by not getting him into treatment at this stage - intervention will be still be "early" (and that's if it is ever needed) - when he is a year or more.

Well, to put your mind at rest with comparisons. My dd was always totally transfixed by things like the moving shadows of leaves on the wall. I could often leave her on a cushion to watch this and she'd even just drift off to sleep on occasion. Like Jimjams said earlier though, she would also move her eyes away now and then if something else moved so it wasn't an 'autistic trance.' My dd never was and still isn't very sociable with other children and this used to / still does worry me a bit. At a party she'll sit very deliberately with her back to the entire room and play with something very quietly on the floor as though she's blanking it out. Hand twisting I do remember happening a lot when she was younger (though it's shocking how quickly you forget the first months when they're well past them!). We also had right from the start terrible food fads (which I know are often 'autistic traits', obsessions with things being done in particular ways as she got older. I remember being at mother / baby groups and constantly thinking 'is my dd behaving like the other kids?' and the one way she seemed always to be different was in terms of cuddlyness and sociability - she doesn't like being held very much or 'fiddled with' (no hope for pretty girly hairstyles here then!), she doesn't even want to be touched when she's been hurt. Then there was a particularly high pitched squeal she did which I still to this day haven't heard another child match in terms of pitch! Basically a whole list of 'potential' symptoms. But I honestly don't think any of them add up to autism. Autism is still relatively rare. And as I said earlier, although I worried and fretted over these things (and new ones as she got older) my worrying didn't do anything except make me miserable. As she's growing I can see in fact that all these 'traits' of hers are actually symptoms of her particular character rather than of an 'illness' as such.

Of course you're right your Ds may, just may, turn out to be autistic. So might my Dd, she's not 2 yet. But we can't do a thing about it. And early intervention might help in some ways but also intervention, if it's the right intervention, at a later age would also help.

But I fear you will worry no matter how much reassurance you get so all I can really add is try as best you can to keep things in perspective?

Good luck and there's always plenty of friendly ears here if you need to ask any more questions. .

There is infinite variety between children, and I am so glad that the Mother & Baby group that I went to was utterly non-competitive. If one child was early doing something the reactions were always along the lines of 'Wow, how wonderful' rather than 'Oh but mine can do that already'. Although it can be very reassuring to watch other children's development, it can sometimes be very disconcerting too. I'm constantly taken aback at the difference between my two: how dd can't or doesn't do things that ds did at her age, whereas she is doing things that ds didn't do until much later, or sometimes still isn't doing even now. But everything that you mention your ds doing, my two have done at some point in their first year. Some things bothered me a lot, particularly the lack of eye-contact at times when 'everyone' said that there would be a lot of eye-contact, eg feeding. That did change as they grew older, BTW! They are both still fascinated by fans of all sorts and lights too. I've had comments on the lines of 'He's got his own agenda, doesn't he?', which always seem to me to be an indication of intelligence on the baby's part - that they are interested in something and will not be easily distracted by trivia. What's his hearing like - does he react differently to speech or music? My dd loved music from day1, you could see a difference in her whenever she heard singing, and later music, and she didn't pay much attention to speech.

I think several people have given you excellent advice in that there is nothing you could do right now about any potential autism, so you might as well push those worries to the back of your mind, and enjoy the now with your baby.

If he is interested in fans and lights, then show him some and take him to the lighting department of a shop. Put him face down on a mattress to encourage the 'crawling' without his face getting scuffed. Give him toys with strange textures (both of mine love Velcro and the tackiness of Post-Its) and shapes (hairbrushes for example) to stimulate his touching and manipulating. Give him the things he reaches for while you ask the question for him to encourage communication.

OK, I am feeling a little better. Thanks for all the reassurance. By the way, I'm in the states, so I'm not really posting at odd hours of the morning. I do sleep at night. And I do my posting when ds is asleep.

One question: What about the dragging of the forehead on the floor...he does that almost any time he is on his stomach. At the mother baby group I went to, he was certainly the only one dragging his head on the floor and making scratching noises with his fingertips. I wanted to interrupt the group at the time and ask, but it seemed very awkward to do so. Did anyone else's child do this in this group?

Strangerthanfiction, can you tell me the things your 2 year old is doing that are reassuring? It would help to hear the good signs!

Thanks!

Hi again mommysandrine. Hope you have been a little reassured by these postings. I want to reiterate that it honestly does seem from what you have said that you have nothing to worry about, but if you need extra reassurance, you'll certainly get it from MNers!

My ds is still fascinated with the light in our dining room, and utterly transfixed by the lights on the burglar alarm sensors that flash on and off with movement. He scratches with his fingertips all the time - at anything! My solution is to buy him a book with lots of textures so he can scratch productively He also spends a lot of time trying to pull his own fingers off...

All I can say is that if you look for these problems, you will find them and, to be blunt, if your ds does turn out to be on the spectrum, he'll be on the spectrum, no matter how much time you have devoted to worrying about it. Sometimes we all forget that babies are individual humans with funny traits and personality quirks, not little development machines, and we spend a lot of time obsessing about this milestone and that behaviour, when in fact they're just learning and being themselves. I am absolutely not trying to dismiss your worrie, just trying to see things from a different perspective. HTH, and hugs.

mommysandrine, the things that dd does that reassure me are firstly that she is aware of me - that sounds pretty minimal but I know from experience with my brother that it's a very important thing. She points to things, always has since about 9 months old and she communicates with me rather than being locked in her own world. She is what I'd call 'introverted' in a lot of ways, i.e. the things I mentioned about her lack of sociability with other kids. But I've noticed she is sociable with other adults if they're not too full on. If they're too full on she either closes her eyes and freezes (literally doesn't move) or she'll put her hands over her eyes til they go away. So she's definitely got her 'quirks' but then I was very shy as a child, so was my partner. Secondly her language skills have always been good (I know this can come and go with autism but it's the way in which she uses language that reassures me). She started saying words around 12 months and then at about 15 months her vocabulary and urge to communicate rocketed. Now at 21 months I'd say she's amazing in terms of what she says and remembers. She is a child who gets fixated with all sorts of things and as a baby she'd either be utterly focused on something visual or she'd be rather restless. Those baby gym things were no good for her, too many things to look at but nothing that engaged her attention quite enough. All in all I'd say she's an extremely sensitive child but it's her character rather than a condition that causes this.

Okay, one last question, and then I'll stop with the symptoms. When you put a 5-month old child in a swing in the park and and he laughs and clearly enjoys it, isn't it strange if he doesn't look up at his mum, directing the laughs towards her if she's standing directly in front of him giving him big smiles and pushing the swing? Or does that come later?

I realize I am obsessing, but I'm beginning to feel that this idea that I have PND is prohibiting me from getting the support I need for dealing with the heartbreak of not having my son respond to me as a mother longs for, or seeing behaviors that strike me as odd. On the one hand I don't want anyone to agree that anything is wrong, and I'm so glad you're all telling me that my child sounds completely normal and that I'm the one with the issue, but on the other hand, it's exasperating to feel something is actually wrong and have people tell you maybe it's you.

Well I understand that one as I have been in that position twice now (ds1 with autism and ds2 with a speech disorder dxed last Friday- on the other thread I said it would at least stop my mum telling me I was imagining it). With ds1 (autism) I began to get worried from around 17 months- but no-one believed me and many people became quite hostile to the idea if I even tried to talk about it. I used to borrow books from the library and then hide them under my bed.

However there really isn't anything in your post that strikes me as unusual- and on mumsnet I always try to tell people (sympathetically I hope) if I think their child may need to be assessed. The other thing is that even if your baby is autistic no professional is going to take you remotely seriously now so you will spend at least another year and a half banging your head against a brick wall.

If you feel like you want to do something then maybe the best route would be to do some sensory exercises. They can be done with young babies- and will be good whether or not your ds is autistic. The best way to get some tailor made would be to consult an OT for one sessions. Although another option would be to look into brain gym, or read something like the out of synch child.

A lot of the problems of autism stem from sensory processing difficulties - so doing sensory work is a really good idea if you suspect you have an auti child. Swinging is a good place to start (also things like roll in a blanket then unroll, once he can sit unaided sit on a swivel chair and turn slowly for 30 seconds in one direction then 30 seconds the other way- rub skin with different textures, provide different smells (always name them)....

Another piece of advice- if you remain convinced that your ds has autism then join some online support groups. There are loads out there. I did this a good year before ds1 received his dx and at a time when everyone else was still hostile to the idea. The online groups were very welcoming and it meant that I never worried about coping (something you mentioned earlier) as I was spending a lot of time chatting to people who were coping just fine. Also meant that when the dx came part of me felt relieved that I was now an "official" member.

However have to say you still haven't said anything that worries me- but the groups may give you a better idea.....Joining them pretty much confirmed to me that my son was autistic. Try to join some chatty ones rather than just info ones.......

mommysandrine, the bit that really catches my eye about your last post is 'not having my son respond to me as a mother longs for'. I remember how my little sister used to rest her hand on my mother's breast while feeding, and gaze deep into her eyes. I longed for that with my ds, and was gutted that he never did it - in fact showed more affection to the bottle than to my breast! He was also never a cuddly child, very reserved in fact, and even at 3y9m I'm still taken by surprise when he spontaneously hugs or kisses me or comes to me for a cuddle. You see, I've learned to accept him as he is - I may have longed for an affectionate child, but got a reserved one and I have learned not to overwhelm him with my affection.

Perhaps your ds's development isn't exactly text-ook (though as you can see from our various responses, very few babies are) and you need to readjust your own expectations.

What about looking into Baby signing classes? That would help with some interaction and possibly a supportive group. Lots of info on MN. I now think that my son showed clear signs of something not being right from day one but I didn't think so at the time, it took until he was about 10 months old before I really thought he was different to my friends' babies, VERY different, and that was the only way I could really tell something was "wrong".

I guess I'm not sure how to push worries to the back of my mind when it feels like they keep staring me in the face every time my son doesn't get excited when he sees me or seems to prefer objects over me. I can stop worrying about little things, but something like this is a big one. This is a potentially life changing thing...following right on the heals of one of the happiest events of my life.

But thank you all for your honest and caring responses. You are a wonderful group of folks!

I can relate to that feeling of thinking/knowing that something's wrong and having people around you thinking that you're mad. Even now that ds1 has a diagnosis my family still tend to think it's just me attention-seeking - and this was after they had read all the official reports! None of them have ever even said the word "autism" and tend to roll their eyes a bit if I mention it.

Feel free to join us on the Special Needs board. Even if your ds turns out not to be autistic you can find a lot of information there in the meantime.

Baby signing is a REALLY good idea. Also I think very structured music classes. I took ds1 from 6 months and it was something he was able to carry on doing as he knew the routine. Couldn't have introduced it later. My son also learned a few actions- only place he did.....

Thanks for the info and recommendations! There are some great ideas in there! I didn't see the posts in between my last two posts (not sure why...I did check for them, I thought...but maybe I made a mistake), so sorry if they seemed out of sync.

Wow, Jimjams, you are amazing. Your ds2 is a lucky little guy to have a mom with such a positive attitude, as is your ds1 and your child to be. I wish the very best of progress for your sons.

I have been doing the baby signs (had planned to do even before ds was born, as it's just such a wonderful idea)...though it's hard to get ds to look at me when I do them...but I'll keep trying. I'll also look out for the online groups and the books, and attempt to keep my worries in check as this develops, but it's a hard thing to do, of course.

You are all wonderful! Thank you!

Mommysandrine - I would just reiterate what everyone has said about it not sounding as if your ds is doing anything unusual. However, you have concerns and that is valid. As others have said, 5 months is very young for any diagnosis. And to be honest, it is probably also too young for any specific intervention, even if your ds did have some kind of SN. My dd has quite severe learning difficulties but even now, (she is 22months) most of the 'therapy' I do with her is basically 'play' . Our paediatric neurologist, who I really trust, told me when dd was about 6 months that the best thing I could do for her was just to play with her loads and do all the usual things like play peek-a-boo, sing songs, get her to explore anything and everything (and sounds like your ds is doing plenty of that!). Please rest assured that even if your ds does have SN, there is probably nothing else you could be doing for him at the moment than just being an involved mum, and from what you've said about already trying signing etc then you are doing plenty .

Although, if you had a child with ASD none of those strategies would work! I know from experience..... you can't be involved on your own! so if those things do work then you can probably forget ASD.

I thought I'd give an update.

I had my son evaluated by a specialist, who said that I'm worrying too much, but that there were a few little things that didn't seem quite right...but it's of course too early to tell what, if anything, might be wrong.

My son is now almost 6 months old. The things that concern me at this point include: odd, repetitive hand and ankle movements, not totally responsive at times, may have sensory issues (scratches things, squeezes and hits me at times), seems a little "trancelike" at times, regulation difficulties (short naps, unable to sooth self to sleep, incredibly frequent nurser), incredibly rapid milestone achievement (he can get from his tummy to standing on his own, he walks along the furniture, and is even starting to try letting go of furniture...but he falls, of course), minor fascination with lights and fans. He's quite good with eye contact these days and seems quite social at times, so I'm not sure what's going on, if anything. I'm wondering more about ADHD sometimes, as it seems many kids who start walking super early end up later being dianosed with ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) much later on.

I'm glad I had the specialist take a look. He's willing to take another look an a few months, and tells me I should let him do the worrying, not me. Makes sense, but of course hard to do!

Anyway, thanks everyone for listening.

Glad to hear from you, mommysandrine, I've been wondering how things are with you.

It's good that the specialist has reassured you, and his advice to let him do the worrying is sound. Now you can let go of the worrying for the time being, and enjoy your precocious son . It's hard work having an early walker, but at least it's summer, so if he walks soon it will still be warm (and dry! ) and you won't find yourself reduced to mall-walking, as I did with my two who both started walking in December.

Keep posting!