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Behaviour/development

Non-smacking parenting for really challenging kids and incredibly hard situations

72 replies

prettybird · 28/03/2007 10:59

After Catastrophe's contribution to the thread on NZ views on the proposed anti-smacking law, I though I'd start the very thread she suggested.

So, what are people'ssuggestions?

Personally, I have used a combination of being sat on the steps/sent to the hallway, star charts, pasta jar, removal of priviliges, explanation, ignoring of bad behaviour and encouragment of good.

These however, did not always work between the ages of 18 months and 2.5 years, with a non verbal toddler.

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Lizzylou · 28/03/2007 11:03

Have used all of your methods and also

threatening to put favourite toys in the bin (and carrying it out, well pretending to...but bringing them back once behaviour has improved)

Straight to bed after bath instead of coming downstairs for stories (this really works for us)

DS1 is 3 and has been for 2 weeks, more challenging now than during the "terrible twos" imo!

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Tortington · 28/03/2007 11:04

i think a lot of things kids get shouted at for are the fault of the parent


shout becuase "that brew is hot"

well you silly cow you shoulndt have it on the floor

" the kid went near the oven"

close the kitchen door, starigate etc.

shouting at the kid becuase it has picked up something - a piece of paper thats important or soemthing dangerous - that shouldnt have been there in the first place.

shouting at the kid for things that are your fault as the adult - is IME very very common

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nailpolish · 28/03/2007 11:07

yes i agree custy

my dh shouts at the dds for "moving his stuff"

well dont leave it where they can "move" it then

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Tortington · 28/03/2007 11:12

my dh shouts at my TEENAGERS for nicking his chocolate

i cant help but call him a thick bastard.

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catASTROPHE · 28/03/2007 11:15

why thank you prettybird, I did wonder if someone would!

Will watch the thread with interest.

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:18

Not sure that we are provding people like CataSTROPHE wih specific enough advice.

Rather than berating people for having on occasion - for wahtever reason - smacked (and I speak as someone who has smacked in the past and feels no guilt for having done so), this thread is supposed to be a construcitve one to help people who are being challenged by the benhaviour of thier kids to get closer to the "ideal" - the situation where smacking is never used.

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dustystar · 28/03/2007 11:20

Ds is has SN and can be very challenging. We use a token system that allows him to earn tokens for doing the things we want - like getting dressed etc- and also earn extra ones for good behaviour. He can also get fined for bad behaviour. He then uses his tokens to 'buy' the activites he wants to do. About 2/3s of the tokens that he earns a day are needed for the activites he would generally do daily. The last third he can save up for a treat. This works well for us but it wouldn't be suitable for a little one. We started it with him when he was 5.

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Enid · 28/03/2007 11:20

agree with custy

also guilt works well I find

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Tortington · 28/03/2007 11:20

have i missed sommat?

where is there any smacking berating?

i think " move your shit and stop shouting at your kid for touching it"

is quite specific.

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:21

catASTROPHE - I did think that someone should - althugh I did leave it a wee while to see if anyone else would.

Intersting though that it was one of the "self-confessed" (athough that implies a asense of guilt, which I don't feel) smackers that did.

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Greenleeves · 28/03/2007 11:22

I probably ought to post on this thread, as one of the vociferous antismackers, although I realise my contribution is just to be ripped apart and sneered at

Most of the disciplining in this house at the moment centres around ds1 (4.7). He is a feisty, highly-strung, difficult little boy (with huge charm and generally lovely manners). I have had to be a bit harder on him lately than previously, because he has been pushing the envelope. Current strategies include:

"angry hands" - when he starts to feel angry, I remind him to do "angry hands" to calm himself down, which he does (he clenches his fists and pushes them together, or flexes his fingers, while counting to ten). I have to remind him, but he does do it and he says it makes him feel better.

When he has tantrums (which he occasionally does) I generally remove him from the room he's in and put him on the sofa in the living room, where he can't hurt himself, and then go out and leave him until he's calmed down a bit. I leave the door open so he's not shut in, but he stays there rather than coming back out to scream - I think he wants to calm down. In fact we have talked about it before and he has told me that "when I feel angry I think the whole world shakes when I stamp my foot" and "Once I am cross and sad I don't know how to stop".

We also have a "calming down song" - just a short silly one - which we made up together, and if he is building up to a tantrum and getting agitated, I sometimes put my arms around him, quite firmly, and start singing it. He usually then will join in, albeit a bit grumpily, and it diverts the tantrum, so we can talk about what was bothering him. Sometimes he will take himself off into a corner and sing it himself, then come back and tell me "It worked, Mummy!"

Withdrawal of privileges - I hate doing this, but for the times he really is just being vile and talking/soothing isn't going to work, I do. Yesterday for example he sat down on the ground and refused to get up or take his own weight (he did that 'boneless' thing, grr!) so I told him that we would not be going to the playground. He was really upset - when we got home he was screaming and being rude, so I put him down gently on the sofa in the living room and left him there for a few minutes, then went in and said "Are you ready to stop this now and have a cuddle and a talk?". To which he said "yes" and apologised. We talked about it a lot that afternoon, about how HIS choices determined what happened, and if he made a different choice tomorrow, he would be able to to go to the playground then. He was delightful this morning and said "Today I am going to be a really good boy Mummy", and was really loving and happy.

For really awful behaviour, like sitting on his brother/snatching something from a nother child and making them cry/fibbing/throwing stuff (very rarely does he do these things, but he does do them - he's a little boy, not an angel!) I usually send him upstairs for a couple of minutes and then go up, tell him off quite sternly (he will apologise) and then talk to him a bit more gently about why he did it, what he should have done instead etc. If he's upset anoher child I ask him to apologise.

If we are out and he has a major tantrum, I pick him up and hold him quite tightly, talking calmly but firmly to him, until he calms down. Then we talk about why it happened, and he apologises. We might go straight home, depending on how bad the behaviour was (if he's hit out at me, for example).

I have done things like taking away his bedtime story a couple of times (don't like doing it), because of serious bad behaviour. The playground incident yesterday was about as bad as he gets, really.

It all sounds long-winded and a lot of talking, but it's not as time-consuming and blustering as it sounds!

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:23

Sorrycusty - I think your advice is great. You seem to be a woderfully assertvie, pragmatic and loving parent.

My reference was more to the two other anti-smacking threads, on one of which CatATSROPHE asked for help.

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:25

If you read the title Greenleeves, your contribution is exactly waht is being asked for, and thank you for going to the effort of outlining your techniques.

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Greenleeves · 28/03/2007 11:26
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wildwoman · 28/03/2007 11:27

Greenleeves I think all of the methods you use are great, my only problem is the bedtime story one. I have been tempted to try that but in the end I give in (I know sign of lazy parenting etc) My dds would absolutely loose the plot at the removal of bedtime stories and I wouldn't like the idea of them crying themselves to sleep. Like I said all the other things are great and I might borrow a few, thanks

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Enid · 28/03/2007 11:27

has anyone mentioned gettnig a job and stopping thinking about it so much?

has worked wonders for my discipline - they don't smack at nursery

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:29

I like you "angry hand" suggestion Greenlevves. It reminds me that I have occasionally tried with ds (who is now 6), when he has got himslef really worked up into a tantrum, to breathe - in for 10 and out for 10, repeat as necessary. It helps slwo him down and sometimes (not alwys) calms him down enough to be able to talk to him.

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lucy5 · 28/03/2007 11:31

I did the naughty stair for a while but dd grew out of it, she didn't care if she was put on there. The threat of taking something away seems to do the trick at the moment [she's 6] I did once start throwing chocolate buttons in the bin, we got to 3 and she gave in.

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:32

I've alwys worked full time Enid - amybe that's why I don't geel any guilt! - not even about working!

However, in catASTROPHE's case, that is specifically not an option - but it might be for some others!

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dustystar · 28/03/2007 11:34

For general discipline we have just started a technique called 123 magic which they do with ds at school. It works really weel as it involves a visual warnign as well as a verbal one. Basically if he doesn't do what he is asked first time we say 'thats a 1' and hold 1 finger up. Then we wait about 5 seconds and if he is still not complying we say 'thats a 2' and hold 2 fingers up. If after 5 more seconds he is till not doing as we have asked we say 'thats a 3 take 6' and hold our fingers up again. We usually don't need to go to 3 but when we do the idea is he has a timeout (same no of mins as age in years). Or sometimes he will lose a prefered activity like playing on the pS2.

The idea is that you stay calm and keep your voice even.

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MadamePlatypus · 28/03/2007 11:34

I agree with everything Greensleeves has said. I think that you have to believe that your child really wants to do the right thing, and that they want to please you. Also, concentrate on fun things. You may still have had a difficult day, but if you can go to bed and talk to your child about how you had a lovely day playing football together you will feel so much better.

Also, remember that people who smack their children do not have perfectly behaved children. I think my philosophy is that I can't imagine changing a pattern of behaviour because somebody smacked me, so I don't see why DS would. The problem is not a child who is naturally trying to be bad to annoy you, but a child who is trying to work out how the world works and sometimes finds it hard.

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MadamePlatypus · 28/03/2007 11:36

Also, counting to 10 is like magic. "Please could you put your shoes on" - "OK I'm going to count to 10, 1, 2, 3..." shoes on.

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wildwoman · 28/03/2007 11:38

What happens when/if you get to ten?

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 11:57

I'd forgotten to mention that we use the counting techniqwue too - in fact it is the one we use the most.

We count to 3 or 5 - depending on whether ds has actauly one/stopped doing whatever it is we wanted him to do/stop. SOmetimes we even use 4 and 1/2, 4 and 4/4 if is obviously trying.

We've not usually speficied what is the consequence of us getting to the magic number - he just knows it will be bad and doesn't want it to happen. Actually, ofeten we don't kow what the consequence will be and if we do get tothe magic number (the technique usually works so it doesn;t often happen), we then have to think of something. It's usually confiscating the tamagotchis for a period, or it might be having to get into his pyjamas straight away (he's not bad bout going to bed, he just hates getting his pyjamas on!)

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prettybird · 28/03/2007 13:02

Any other advice?

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