Non-smacking parenting for really challenging kids and incredibly hard situations

[prettybird]

After Catastrophe's contribution to the thread on NZ views on the proposed anti-smacking law, I though I'd start the very thread she suggested.

So, what are people'ssuggestions?

Personally, I have used a combination of being sat on the steps/sent to the hallway, star charts, pasta jar, removal of priviliges, explanation, ignoring of bad behaviour and encouragment of good.

These however, did not always work between the ages of 18 months and 2.5 years, with a non verbal toddler.

[amidaiwish]

haven't read the whole thread - but i find the "removal and ignore" technique very effective with my 2 DDs (3 and 18m)

i have a utility room with a glass panel door just off the kitchen/living room - if they are being naughty they get a warning, if they carry on i count to 3. if they still don't stop i pick them up and put them in the utility room and shut the door. As it is a glass door they can see out (and i can see them) but they are excluded. It works a treat. Never takes more than a minute or so before they say sorry (or rub my head/give me a cuddle) and they come back in behaving themselves.

Before i discovered this, i tried the naughty step but they wouldn't stay on no way.

[MadamePlatypus]

I think its perfectly normal for a child not to stay on the naughty step. We tried it a couple of times when DS was about 2 - he just wandered off. I have never fully understood why any child would stay on it.

[AspartameGoddessOfCatAstrophe]

gentle is better greeny, I'm sure you're right (boy do we need a 'jaded' emoticon)

G'night

[Greenleeves]

Well, then you'll have the pleasure of watching me crash and burn in a few years time

[Nightynight]

agree, avoiding confrontation the best way.

not always possible as they get older though.

[Greenleeves]

No, my posts on here don't tell the whole story, that's true. And I expect my little boy is different from yours too. Even very challenging children vary widely. However I have found that because of ds1's very oppositional nature, gentler and more non-confrontational methods and pre-emptive strategies seem to work best for us. Directly confrontational "You will do as you're told or else" scenarios are disastrous whereas the softer more reasoned approach is gradually working. The staff at the nursery are trying something similar, but we've had some spectacularly bad days.

I just don't like the assumption that those of us who don't use the more forceful tactics must have easy docile children. After the week I've just had with ds1 (tears, heartache, long consultations with teacher, starting a thread on here to beg for help, that sort of thing)it gets my back up. It's just not true.

Anyway, I have to go to bed. Goodnight

[Nightynight]

PDA thread is interesting, cant identify it with any of my lot though.

[catASTROPHE]

GS, I'm sure you work hard at disciplining well and being patient - was not trying to suggest you have it easy - how would I know?

Fact is though, some children are less challenging than others, and was just saying that my friends just don't get that. They seem to think that the solution to DD's poor bahaviour is a simple matter of being a bit calmer and more patient, which is also insulting.

[Nightynight]

greensleeves, its because the behaviour that you describe is not that extreme, and the solutions that you suggested didnt work for us.
I am sure that your posts dont give the whole story though.

[Greenleeves]

PDA

DH actually thought this sounded a lot like ds1, but I wasn't so sure. We are thinking along those lines though - he's far from being an easy child. Docile?

[Zog]

Sometimes I think the strategies that people give are fine if you've only got one child. But surely it can't be right if I'm spending so much time and energy on the child who is misbehaving? What message does that send to the ones who don't kick off?

[Greenleeves]

I've seen that link before, it was suggested to us in connection with ds1 (he doesn't have it though IMO). Also PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance), have you heard of that one? Equally difficult.

It's rather insulting to assume that other people's children are easier to manage than yours just bcause they don't use the same methods as you, I think. I don't assume that all the smackers' children are horrible out of control brats.

[catASTROPHE]

I do know what you mean though nightynight. My DD is the most challenging of all my friends' kids (by their admition too) and when they say "just be firm and put her on the time out step" I think "you have got no idea"

[Nightynight]

there's a lot more to it than that, greensleeves.

Heres the thread: oppositional defiant disorder

[paulaplumpbottom]

I have a little red chair that sit in a hallway where there is nothing to look at. She has to stay there for an amount of time depending on what she has done. If she gets up more time is added on.

[Greenleeves]

Nightynight, my little boy is extremely challenging by any standards. Hence the fact that he has an IEP when he hasn't even started school yet, and is currently being investigated to find out whether he got AS, ASD or ADHD (or just a difficult personality).

Don't assume that just because other people are using different methods from yours, their children are "easier" than yours. FWIW, there's no way on earth my 4yo would sit on a naughty step either. He would see it as confrontational for me to ask him to do something so ridiculous. I have found a few things that seem to work for us at the moment - no guarantees for the future of course. But don't assume everyone else has it easier than you do, or that your children are more "challenging" just because they don't respond to some of the more popular techniques - lots of perfectly ordinary children don't get on with naughty steps and star charts.

[rantinghousewife]

I'm sorry, I can't really think of any other good advice other than, always be consistent. My ds was esp. challenging between 18 mts and 4 years. Mostly due to lack of vocal skills (his) and (probably) lack of patience (mine). It does get easier and I found (with practice) more manageable, but every child is different and techniques that work well with one child don't always transfer to another. If it's an attention thing, then as long as everyone's safe, I used to find removing myself from the situation made it easier.

[Nightynight]

I will try to find it, not sure I got the name right.

I often feel, especially when reading anti smacking threads, as though I live in a diffrerent world from all these docile kids.

[Nightynight]

it was more just a definition of the disorder, catastrophe - I was shocked by the mention on another website of prescribing drugs to make your child more docile.

[Zog]

Nightynight, can you link to that thread please?

[catASTROPHE]

thanks nightynight, i will look for that thread

[catASTROPHE]

Thanks, will think those through - think I do some already. DD is only 2 and 10 months, and her brother is only just one, so it is not an even match - she is bullying him She does love him, but is v jealous. I feel sad for her, but she makes me so mad.

[foxybrown]

Greenleeves - thanks for Angry Hands. My 5yo hits out at his siblings so I'm going to put this into practice tomorrow.

[Nightynight]

there isnt really a lot of useful stuff yet on this thread about really challenging children.

best advice so far is custy's - god, how many situations can be avoided with a little bit of forethought on the part of the parents! and strongteabag's suggestions.

all 4 of my children are very challenging. eg the naughty step, I tried at the appropriate age - they refused to sit on it for an instant, just bounced straight up, banging on the door. I dont want to go into details about their behaviour these days, but I dont think it is easy to understand unless you also have challening children. there was a mn thread about ODD - Oppositional Defiance Disorder (or something like that) last year, which might give you some idea.

When I have time, I use the I-can-wait-longer-than-you method, similar to what the carers used in Brat Camp. It is effective, but v time consuming.

[Greenleeves]

Hello catASTROPHE I hate the ignoring thing, it makes me seriously mad! Especially when you kno damn well they CAN hear you. When ds1 does it, I usually repeat whatever it was in a firm voice, then if he doesn't acknowledge me I go overto him, take whatever he's doing out of his hands, take his hands in mine and get him to look at me, and say something like "Please don't ignore me, it's rude", and then say whatever it was I had been trying to say in the first place. I usually tickle him or blow a raspberry at him as well, it breaks the tension [lunatic emoticon]

When mine snatch toys from each other (which they do, a lot) I usually turn a blind eye to it unless one child is hurt/distressed/seems to be always the one losing out (mine are fairly evenly matched at the moment). If it is getting out of hand and one child is being especially bratty, I usually take the toy in question away and say regretfully "Oh, if that XXX is going to cause fighting and snatching, we had better not play with it today. We don't have any snatching, that's not how we play with one another."

If one hits/kicks the other deliberately (mine don't do this much yet, but I'm sure they will) I tend to just move the offending child away by a few feet, gently, make a fuss of the injured party, and then have a quiet word and ask the perpetrator to apologise. I then harp on a bit (not telling off, just discussing with them both) about what it feels like to be hit/pushed and why we don't treat each other like that. If it's happening repeatedly I change the activity (might mean even sticking the telly on ) to break the pattern, IYSWIM.

But as I said, at least one of mine has got socialisation problems already, so there's no reason why anyone should want my advice