Aake & sleep times for 9 week old - help please

[DebsCee]

My 9 week old DS is getting less day and night sleep as each week passes. He doesn't seem able to stand more than 20/30 minutes of awake time after a feed before he is massively tired and getting him to nap in his cot is impossible. He is exclusivley BF and feeds well, is putting on a ton of weight.
I just feel like all we have time for is a BF, nappy change and then he needs to be asleep again, because he screams with tiredness and I cannot get him to sleep, so we scream from one feed to the next.
I estimate he is getting 12 hours max of sleep in 24hrs, and although this may be fine for some LO's my DS is not happy about it, and looks permanently shattered!
He is swaddled before every nap, which he also seems to hate, and I have no concerns that he is in pain, he's definitely tired or overtired by the time we get to lunchtime. I can spend the best part of every day trying to get him to nap and nothing works - even my ring sling
Please tell me about your 9 week old babies, is my DS really different to the norm, and how on earth can I help him get to sleep on his own, as anything I do just makes him worse it seems and so the overtiredness just gets worse and worse.

DD1 was very poor at getting herself to sleep - I ended up buying a swing (battery operated - pop them in and off to sleep they go!) because I couldn't stand her crying. DD2 was bunged in her pram (day) and cot (night) and door shut and left to it. The swing worked for me for DD1, have you tried one? Is he better without being swaddled? My two didn't get on with that at all. Have you tried pram for day time naps and cot for night? Helps separate the two - some babies have a problem with knowing the difference, some don't. Can you put him down straight after a feed, rather than nappy changing/swaddling etc? DD2 loves to be fed until sleepy and then popped straight down. It may be that the nappy change is making him cross because all he wants is a sleep after a feed. Some people say that is a bad habit to get into, but I disagree, and at 9 weeks it is worth a try. Hope this doesn't sound too preachy, I'm not trying to, just trying to give a few ideas. HTH

I agree. DD naps better if nappy change happens before the feed. I usually feed and then gentle time and then she drops off. I also find she nods off more easily if I'm not in her face as it were. i.e. if I just get on with some stuff she nods off better than if I'm trying to 'help' her get to sleep.

Cranial osteopathy would help if there is anything else going on - i.e. if he's uncomfortable for any reason?

Thanks for your messges - just realised my typo in the title - it should of course read 'Awake'!

The problem is that he often poos whilst feeding and they aren't small so he needs changing again before he sleeps. But I am going to try this.

Does the amount of time he is awake sound right? It just seems so little. How much sleep should he be getting each day?

Bump - can anyone else tell me what their LO was/is like at 9 weeks please? Any tips?!

Theres a simlar thread about 3.5/4mo babbas here,

Don't underestimate how much they sleep! Spose everything is new and tiring for them for ages.

Soz here

Still not got the hang of links so will post address thingy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=8&threadid=296120&stamp=070321153406

Thanks TT - I guess I can accept that he needs loads of sleep, whereas other babies his age may not, but how on earth do I begin to get him to sleep anywhere other than on me in the daytime? It's that familiar story where every time I place him in his cot he instantly stirs, is awake and screaming.

Or is it too early to expect him to be able to do that, I just don't want any bad habits to have to break later.

Where do other babies spend their day time sleeps?

I personally wouldn't worry about habits etc forming until a couple of months down the road, and even if they do form at that stage- at least you've had a couple of months of an easier life now! They can be a bit tricky to break but a week or so of tough times might be worth it for peace of mind (and lovely snuggles) now

My ds morning nap used to be from 8.30 ish until about 11.30, we'd both have gone back to bed together, and sometimes I could get him to go longer with a bit of boob when he stirred- but to no ill effects even after 4 or so months doing this, nor from 18 months of bf'ing to sleep. You sound like you're doing fine and its so hard to resist cuddling such lovely tiddly babies!

With DD1 I didn't worry about helping her get to sleep in the daytime because I knew that at some point she wouldn't sleep at all iyswim. As long as he can self settle at night, I wouldn't worry about bad habits forming for daytime sleeps - DD1 had dropped hers completely by 18 months anyway. 12 hours does sound a small amount of sleep for 9 weeks, but they are all different, and I think DD1 probably had a similar amount. DD2 on the other hand had 5 naps a day at that point!

oh... 9 weeks is very young, try not too worry, babes sound happy esp if he is putting on weight.All abes are different you can see that from the threads on mn,,go with the flow and try to get as much rest as poss, like sonmeone else said, try not to worry about what might happen, just enjoy the time you have

oh he isnt collicky is he?

You can always top him up a bit with another tiny feed after you have changed his bum after the main one, just enough to settle him back down after the trauma of the bum change - and I wouldn't bother putting him in the cot, put him in the pram near you, and kip on the sofa.

he is very tiny, he's not old enough to be forming any bad habits for at least the next 2 months, by which time he will be easier to deal with.

at this age, they only stay awake for about 1.5 to 2 hours usually.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - really helps.

I'm pretty sure it's not colic, definitely overtiredness, and the only reason he is having so little sleep during the day is because he gets overtired so quickly and can't go to sleep, won't even fall asleep on me if I miss his tired cues - and that's what's bothering me really - how do I get him into his cot in time for him to soothe himself. I think the times he needs to be sleeping he is crying from overtiredness instead!

My first DS was a great sleeper from day one and would spend hours awake during the day - but then he was happy to do that.

DS2 just screams and screams to go to sleep and it's unbearable to hear him and not be able to help him.

have you tried the tumble drier or washing machine? Putting bouncy chair in front of it worked like a dream with ds1 (not with ds2 so far, so depends on baby).

DebsC

Honestly don't get hung up on making him sleep in the cot. He can sleep just as well in the pram. Plenty of time for him to learn to settle himself when he is older - he can't learn anything like that now, he needs you.

Thanks Colditz - I wish he would sleep in the pram - but he screams then too, only me or OH will do, and with a frustrated 2.7 YO too it's hard work not getting a break.

However, he sleeps happily in his cot at night!

My 11 week old does not sleep in is cot in the day but in her bouncy chair down stairs.

She sleeps from 730-8pm til about 6-7am then I feed her til she falls asleep, change her, then finish feeding her and put her down in her cot until about 10am. Then she is up for the rest of the day except for cap naps, one in the morning then a slightly longer one in the afternoon. But they are not long naps.

SHe used to be more wingy but with a 19month old to look after too, I am afraid I sometimes just let her cry (just winging not the really serious stuff!) and often she drops off herself.

DS1 was pretty much the same. WHen he got to about 6 months when he was on solids, I started putting him down for a nap in his cot at about 1030-11am until about 1pm. At first he just spent the whole time crying but I used Baby Whisperers Pick up-putdown method to get him used to it. It took about a week but he still has that nap. He hasnt slept in the afternoon since then.

I think that if they sleep well at night, maybe they dont need the same sleep in the day. Thats what I have found with mine so far, anyway.

I have also been using Baby WHisperers Shh-Pat method for dd's bed time and it has taken about a week to get her to settle herself to sleep! Only happened in the last few days but might be worth a try if you want him to sleep in hi scot in the day?

FOund this account of it if you dont know what it is and it pretty much sums up wha tI do. Hope it helps.

"Start by winding down gently to naptime. Sit somewhere quiet and dark with your baby for a few minutes before lying him down.

When he starts to cry, pick him up and calm him down completely before you lay him back down. When he cries again pick him up, and reassure him. Up to the age of three months, you can pat him on the back, and say ?shh-shh?, because a child under 3 months cannot hold three thoughts in their mind. So if he is being patted and listening to the ?shhh?, he cannot focus on crying as well.

The other thing to remember is that under the age of three months, they have no control over their arms or legs. So the other thing to do is to swaddle him. I would suggest doing that before laying him down.

Put him back in the cot but continue to pat and ?shhh? for at least 7-10 minutes after he has calmed down. Don?t stop the minute he is quiet, keep going but gradually slow down the patting and make the ?shhh? quieter. It may take you twenty minutes of pu/pd before you get him to sleep. "

Thanks DH.

I have invested in a sling so at least if he sleeps in there during the day I can still get stuff done and play with DS1! I keep trying him in his bouncy chair, and he's happy enough until he gets tired and then he gets very agitated by it - typical.

I've read the BW book ad I do use the shh part to calm him down when he's really overtired and it works to get him to sleep on me, but I think we are going to bite the bullet and wait until he is nearer 3 months to really push the day time naps in his cot.

We swaddle him at night and he seems to like that, but during the day he struggles against it so much, he still flails his arms and legs around so much, so another reason to wait until he's 12 or so weeks and then hopefully he will be able to go into a sleeping bag instead.

You really do get the feeling that they ought to stay inside for an extra 3 months, but pity the woman giving birth to that head size

DebC you have hit the nail on the head - there is a school of thought that believes all human babies are premature to allow for both human brains and human hips. they really choul be inside a few more months.

God the idea of being pregnant for any longer than 9 months is awful! Imagine how massive you would be!

Having said that, my dd was a week early by cs and she looked like she should was not ready and was tiny. Her big brother was 2 weeks late and was certainly quite big enough thank you and definatly ready to be in this world

Good Luck Debscee xxx

DH - quite agree, a 12 month pregnancy would be horrific, but it would be lovely if they could come out a little more, well, settled really! Wishful thinking, guess we just grin and bear the first 3 months, time passes so quickly anyway

Sounds like you've had lots of good ideas on here already but I would say also - persevere with the sling (I know you said he finds it hard to get to sleep even in that when he is tired). My ds2 was a bit like that and it once he was tired it required lots of energetic walking to get him to sleep. But if you just carry him in it as much as you can he may find it easier to look around at the world when he is wakeful and then eventually sink into a sleep. Assuming there is time after feeding/changing etc! And I would echo what everyone else says about not worrying about "habits" at this point. If nothing else you will not have him in a cot forever anyway! Good luck.

Thanks to everyone who replied to my message.

I just wanted to give an update really - DS2, now 14 weeks old, is taking naps in his cot 4 times a day, settling himself to sleep and sleeping well at night too. Of course he is still hard work sometimes, especially when we're out and he's overtired but on the whole, things are much improved. He usually manges to stay happy for about an hour to hour and a half after a nap.

Just needed to get past the 3 month mark I reckon

DC - I know your msgs are a bit old now, but just wondering how you made the transition to self-settling in cot at 14wks??

I could've written your original msg myself - DS is 9wks and is EXACTLY the same - gets overtired very easily, goes from awake and OK to meltdown in seconds, and the only way I can get him to sleep is by rocking or bfing. Then when I put him down he's awake within 20mins, unless I hold him for at least 45mins 1st. Not practical with an almost 3yr old to look after! He does sleep in his sling, but I would like some time without him to stop DD getting so jealous. He won't even settle when out driving - just screams, which is awful if I'm driving

I was so adamant I'd have a self-settler from day 1 this time round - ha ha! Oh well...

So, did you do anything in particular to teach him to self-settle?

Thanks in anticipation xx