Help please! I seem to have a 3 year old heading for a young offenders institution!!

[PeckaRolloverAgain]

OK....bit of background.

DS is 3 - his birthday is September 7th so he is just about the oldest in his year group.

He attends playgroup 4 mornings a week and has done since October last year.

He is a big boy for his age (wears age 4-5 clothes)

He is pretty clumsy, very full of life, has NO FEAR of danger (jumped down the full flight of stairs a couple of weeks ago claiming to be trying to fly to his friends house), when he hurts himself he very rarely cries, I often joke that he has no pain threshold etc etc)

Anyway, went to collect him this afternoon from playgroup and the teacher asked to have a word. Apparently 4 families have complained about him. The children are frightened of him it seems.

She stressed to me that he isnt badly behaved and is quite sure that he is never malicious towards the children but because he is so boisterous, big and fearless he is hurting and scaring the kids.

He also seems to be acting out the power rangers at playgropu (made guns from stickle bricks yesterday and scared some girls by pretending to shoot them).

She has asked that I try and encourage him to calm down and be gentle and Im a bit at a loss as to what to do.

I have already stopped him watching power rangers although he does have soem of the toys and a couple of pirate swords etc - shall I remove these?

I understand how the situation has come about but cant help but feel a bit protective towards him - hate to think of him being labelled as a little shit because he really is a lovely boy. Very loving.

I am a childminder and he is really gentle and kind with the 18 month old that I look after.

He is SO much bigger than most of the other kids at playgroup, some of them are relaly tiny and only just 2.5 - she said that sometimes just by him trying to cuddle them or play with them he is knocking them flying

Any ideas? I have just tried to talk to him but it is just goign completely over his head!

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Have no experience of this, but my mate has her own version of your over enthusiastic son, and I wish she would:

Practice playing 'nice' with him in smaller playdates - I have volunteered my poor little martyr for it with my mate's kid. The complaining families could be asked to help ?

Huge amounts of positive reinforcement when he is kind to the 18 month old. Tell him exactly what practical things he does are good?

Tell him how very very lucky he is to be such a big strong active lovely boy. He is very special because of it and must take care of his special power? Does he have a story or a tv character this relates too, about how if you are very good at something you have use it carefully? I wouldn't limit his toys, they are just things he has to learn to use nicely as well?

Role play big bear scaring little bear and big bear playing nicely with little bear?

I hope their may be some sense and nothing dangerous in there. Check if the playgroup leader and you are doing the same thing.

merryberry, thankyou for your input!!

I will give your role play ideas a go - that might help for him to make the connection in his brain.

Im loathed to "punish" him as I really dont see it as being naughty.

I have tried to talk to him but he just looks blankly at me.

I have made him a star chart saying along the top

"I will try very hard to be kind and gentle to other children and try not to hurt them when I am playing and running around"

and space for 10 stickers.

I will use this at home and send it in to be used there.

Is that ok do you think?

Surely, doesn't deserve punishing, it deserves channeling and as he learns to be more considerte, then praise for consideration and some reigning in for lack of it.

i always think these consideration things like 'kind' and 'gentle' are well too hard for under 5s to really get. I think you have to break it down into tiny steps. like:

ds runs straight into friend in eagerness to play. friend cries.

show instead him how bear runs up to bear-friend and saya 'wanna play' instead?

got to go now and get decorator quote, catch up laterm sorry to be so brief.

I don't think there's much you can do, Pecca. It sounds like he's a sweet and well intentioned little boy and behaving just fine when with you and the only problem is that he's lively and bouncy. Good qualities in themselves and only a problem in what sounds like rather a sedate, nay almost prissy, little playgroup, imo. I mean, I don't have little girls but surely getting scared by a stickle brick gun is awfully wet? Are there any other playgroups in town? It sounds like he could benefit from somewhere with more space to run about and perhaps a few more older children to play with.

Scummy - THANKYOU! You have just validated my feeling that he isnt the spawn of the devil!

The playgroup leader was very careful to reassure me that SHE knows he isnt naughty or malicious but I think the mothers complaining and saying they may not bring their children back are being a bit precious.

That said I am prepared to try and moderate it a bit as I know he is a bit TOO exuberant sometimes as he just has NO FEAR of anything so would quite happily run into a wall, try and fly off a slide etc and because he seems to be so impulsive he doesnt seem to bear other people in mind.

Im reluctant to move him as he will be going to school nursery in SEptember so it seems a shame to settle him somewhere else as he took a long time to setle here.

I feel sad about dampening his personality as it is so WONDERFUL to me, he is full of life, fun, enthusiasm, humour and also, yes a 2000mph attitude to everything!

So he is not persistently hitting, pushing or even biting smaller children...he is just big and bouncy?
Honestly pecka, he sounds fine to me, I am amazed people have complained about him on that basis.
Dd is three and in a nursery class with some older, fearless boys. They scare me sometimes, LOL - hurling themselves around like flying squirrels. But I would not complain about them! And dd has swiftly learned that just because they plummet to the ground from high walls, she can't...and to keep a bit of any eye open for excessive bounciness.
Playgroup need to come up with some positive, non-punitive strategies to help him develop some awareness of his physical strength, but at his age he can hardly help himself.

Scummy, I bet it is tiny boys who are scared of the stickle-bricks. Dd would have the gun off pecka's ds in a trice, convert it to a handbag, clonk him over the head with it and tell him he was saggy, boggy and rubbish. That's the sort of thing she does to her beloved family, anyway

He sounds lovely. It sounds as though he just needs to be somewhere where he can play freely with lots of space to move around in.

Agree with Scummy about the girls being scared by sticklebricks. It just sounds so precious.

Glad to hear it and i would expect no less from a daughter of yours, marina. (Pecka did SAY they were girls in the OP- I'm not making sexist assumptions, honest!)

Can you get him together with some 4/5 year olds to have a carefree boisterous play? Because they will be closer to his size nobody will feel threatened.
What a shame he can't do this at playgroup.

I do think your nursery school needs to help you a bit with this rather than presenting it as a "problem" and then not doing anything about it.

DS was at nursery school with a very boisterous little boy who used to scare him quite a bit (DS is an oldest child and not particularly "alpha male"). I know that a couple of other parents complained - we didn't, but my nanny was friends with one of the helpers and we heard a bit of what was going on. I know that this child also had 2 older siblings and in my experience younger siblings can be a lot more physically robust than older children.

Nursery school took the view that there was nothing wrong with the "bouncy boy" in that he was not malicious or unkind, just very boisterous. They also made sure that some of the more gentle children were kept out of his orbit and also that he wasn't allowed to dominate them. DS leaarned how to say "STOP" and hold his hand out when this boy was near him and he didn't like it, and to be fair the bouncy boy would just go somewhere else. This also taught the bouncy boy that he had to be more gentle if he wanted others to play with him.

So I think your nursery school is also being a bit wet, to be honest.

Agree with Scummy re the girls being a bit wet as well. If someone pointed a sticklebrick gun at DD (3) she would probably give him a flying karate kick, disarm the gum, twist his arm behind his back and hold the gun to his head in the best manner of a Bond heroine without even ruffling her hair bobbles.

Dd is shaping up to being Holly Short (tempered) to ds' Artemis Fowl in our house anchovy
Missed that these delicate little blossoms were indeed female . We'll send anchovy's dd and mine into to run assertiveness training.
Dd was part of a named gang when she was at her old nursery . They thought of the name themselves. They were two, rising three

Yes, I would take away guns, swords, tv programmes that have any form of violence, even cartoon violence. Explain to him that these things are not good.

Ds doesn't even get khaki clothes that all shops sell for his age. Khaki gear, is war gear.

Children this age do understand violence.

I stopped going to someone's house once (the child was 2.5, ds was 1.5 at the time) because all he did was wear costumes that encourage violence etc and attack ds with swords. He threw him down so hard once, ds nose bled.

Obviously your son is very loving when he is with you, but you have to take some control over what he is doing outside the home.

Thanks everyone for the input! It is really helpful.

We have just been up to school to collect DD. Whilst there he saw two of his friends from playgroup and ran up to give them big cuddles. I found myself cringeing thinking ohhhh dont be rough please it might have been her that complained!

He has been darling this afternoon, being very kind, thoughtful and caring.

At the school playground he has run round alot, fallen over a few times but nobody was injured or afraid ;)

I dont think it is a coincidence that the playgroup has just had a large new intake of children.

a) more kids means less space for him to run around safely
b) more of teh children are small and young and maybe a bit scared of playgroup in general and as DS seems to be one of the reckoning forces of the playgroup it is he that is taking a lot of the blame for their fear.

Im not sure how to play it with them tomorrow really.

I mentioned it to a mum I know with a DS at the group and her response is that they should be making it their problem not mine. She commented that they dont actively engage with the children and Maybe if he was reigned in a bit more with a task or structured activity he would be less likely to just run around and be wild.

She also commented that neither he nor I could help that he was big, fearless and clumsy - we all just have to work around it.

Also, when I watch DS with other kids - he doesnt necessarily push he just doesnt have any concept of personal space. He stands up very close to kids and "gets in their face"

Can three year olds understand about personal space? Could I maybe teach him a bit about standing back from other children?

No they don't. Being in someone's space is not something that you can train him not to do at this age.

Interesting re influx of new children - I'm sure that has changed the group dynamics.

Honestly, though, your DS sounds lovely and shouldn't be viewed only in reference to much smaller children.

Interestingly when someone went to complain about the boisterous boy at DS's nursery school the (very experienced and down to earth) head said :"we all know what X is like. His parents and I are putting in place some strategies to deal with it. I think you and I should put in place some strategies to teach your child to deal with a bit of innocent rough and tumble as well" - which is exactly the response I would like from a school, tbh, on both sides of the line.

I definitely think that the time will soon come for him to move on. DS moved to the pre-school at his school where there were more boys and bigger boys and it certainly was a good move for him (he has an October birthday). I'm sure that will sort a lot of the issues.

I have just been thinking.

The playgroup havent in 5.5 months he has been attending ever commented about his behaviour.

This contact has been triggered by the complaints.

So I can only deduce that if it was DS who was at fault surely they would have spoken to me before now about working on it together?

I think that DS has been doing his normal stuff and scared some of the new kids - the kids have gone home and said "Dont like playgroup (DS) is scary)" Complaints have been made and they have had to say something.

I might ask them tomorrow why the problem hasnt been mentioned before now?

Dont get me wrong Im not blaming other people and I will attempt to get DS to be more aware of his boisterous behaviour.

The playgroup sound like they are paying lip service to these other parents.
Your son is not a problem, and the playgroup should have defended him to these other parents, and explained that your son is not aggressive or unkind.
They need to know that their children are not being hurt deliberately.
I would be very angry with the playgroup, actually - they have handled it very badly, IMO.
It sounds like they have only brought it up with you because they are worried that these other parents will take their children elsewhere if they don't.
How are you supposed to manage your DSs 'tiggerishness' when you are not there?
That is their job, and it is unprofessional of them to try and make this out to be a problem, IMO.
Your poor DS - he sounds lovely!

I've just spoken to his Dad and explained what was said.

He has said that tomorrow he wants me to confirm with them if this is an issue about DS's behaviour (is he actually being naughty?) if so then yes, we will deal with it but if its just that he is overbearing, in your face and clumsy then we will talk to him about the importance of being gentle when playing but not try and change his personality.

I agree with him, today I was mortified and was a bit apologetic and agreeing with them but after thinking about it I think he should have been defended a little bit by them.

I am looking after a 3 yr old girl today (considerably smaller than DS) and they are out there playing beautifully together. He isnt a bully - just when left in a big hall he will run and run and run!

Thank you SO much everyone - you have really helped me to get my thoughts in order today.

hiya new to this site,
Got a comment about banning guns etc,i tried this with my eldest, banned my brothers from getting my son anything to do with guns,swords,the lot,and then my son age 3 came up to em with 2 fingers together and went bang shot u mummy,,,so it dont matter how hard u try to keep bad influances away something will always come up... Now from how u describe ya son he sounds like a friends son to me wot u described is wot she once told me about her son and at the age of 7 he was diagonseed as adhd,now im not saying that is wot your son has,but the sense of having no fear, rarley crying when he has hurt im self,is exactly wot my friend told me about her son......Also with the power ranger bit,if u caan u should try cutting down he's tv hrs and monitor wot he watches u could also write down how he behaves after watching each programme and see which 1 influences him the most.

sorry for rambling hope nething i have said helps and does not offend
from one mum to another

Oh and also,,,,,,,,,,,Maybe your son dont do well in large groups,u have said that he is fine when there is just 1 other around, u havn't said wot he is like in large groups,my 10 yr old son is fine with about 5-7 people around but any larger than that ( even if its family) he tends to get loud and agressive and genually just showing off.

Talk to the play group find out if they do work in a large group or a small group,at my daughters nuresey theres about 31 kids in the class and they do small group work only 5 kiddies in a group,that y there all geting the attentsion they need.

Another thing u could try is having together time set out half hr a day when its just u and him maybe reading or doing a few puzzles,that helped me with my 10 yr old son and i only found out 2 yrs ago he has behaviour problems.

Again sorry for rambling and i hope i aint offended.

from 1 mum to another

"Then my son age 3 came up to em with 2 fingers together and went bang shot u mummy"

A 3 year old would ONLY do that if he is copying someone else who has done it or seen it on tv. That is exactly my point. If you take away the thing they are copying at that age, then they would not do it.

Ds is 2.8 - I have never seen him use an object as a gun, knife, sword, etc. He has nothing to copy it from.

Of course it is more difficult where the child is in someone else's care. You can't banish everything for ever. They may learn it from other children or adults, like swearing.

But if you teach at a very young age that guns, swords, etc are not good, you are more likley to be able to control that influence from others later on.

I am not saying everyone should do this. I feel very strongly about it with my own son. An cousin once gave him a car with a machine gun on top of it as a present. I gave it away.

i can assure u that theres was no way my son could of seen anything of the sort i monitored wot he watched on telly,and when we was out he never witnessed anything like this,,,maybe if we popped into a toy shop he saw such products,but there is no way he got it from me ,t.v or any other reletive