4,5 year old ruining our family life...this can't be normal

[pia78]

Hello
I am seeking opinions on what is acceptable behaviour from our four year old boy. When is it just 'spirited and limit testing' or a sign of more serious behaviour issues such as oppositional defiance disorder? Our son makes everyday a struggle. A struggle to get up, a struggle to have breakfast, a struggle to get dressed etc..I know a lot of these are part in the parcel of being a four year old, and if were these sorts of things alone I wouldn't be so worried, but it is the intensity in which he displays a range of behavioural traits that I am very worried about.

My husband- inhumanly patient- thinks it's normal, but as a mother I feel something has always been extra difficult, just not quite right. Unfortunately because he has always been very challenging, we seem to be trapped in a constant negative cycle of defiance - consequences and punishment. Over the years we have become so immune to the way things have become it seems like we are living in a prison camp with constant reprimanding, constant breaking rules, constant consequences etc..but it is obviously not working! He KNOWS the rules but either cannot or won't listen to them. The usual strategies I see other parents use just have little or no effect with him.

To list some of his troubling behaviour:

• defiance most of the time. Not able to listen and follow a request from most people. As his mother I feel like I have very little control over him.
• difficulty in socialising with his peers. In any given situation- school, plsydate, outing with family friends, holiday, he will disrupt the social harmony. It is heartbreaking to watch, to always see that it is him causing the problem. For example there might be kids playing with something, he will come over and either dominate, disturb the peace etc. If he is reprimanded he will try to make amends, but in a way that seems to alienate himself even further. He doesn't seem to able to read the situation. On a good day or when he's trying really hard, he will want to scoaljalsie with the kids, he will say something like 'would you like to play ball with me?' And sometimes for a short period might be ok but most often than not the other child will not want to play with him and will seek out the parent or some sort of conflict will arise.
• he can be aggressive towards other children very easy to push and shove etc.. even if they are younger than him, doesn't seem to register. Again i know this happens, but it just seems to happen a lot with him
• agressive towards caretaker ( mother, nanny or whoever in charge) if he is asked to do something he doesn't want to do. Can escalate very quickly. Hits, kicks, bites etc..again am i being unreasonable to expect. A 4,1/2 year old not to bite anymore?
• seeks company of older people. Doesn't seem to have developed any friends at school (although only started in September) but calls his teachers his friends. ( was the same at nursery)
• cannot cope with transitions or change in routine. E.gs: at school gates at pick up if I don't swoop in for a swift removal and linger for even a few seconds he might rip of his coat, start running around manically, might even jump into the street, will annoy other children by poking them, pulling at them while walking passed. Have noticed him even giving slight kicks to other parents who are waiting for their children. I have a five month old baby with me and cannot run after him if he runs around like a maniac in central London. It is to the point that I am too scared to take him anywhere if I have the baby with me (even if she's in a sling, he is so fast it scares me that I can't control what's going on) Another example at the school Xmas concert, he found it very difficult to stay in his place and perform the three or four songs. There were two teachers positioned around him to keep him in line from either annoying the other children (tapping shoulders, poking and even kicking them) or wanting to run out to me. Afterwards there was a classroom breakfast with all the parents, and again it sent him

Into 'naughtiness', running around, pulling and pushing his classmates, even stomped on one of this classmates' father as he picked her up to remove her from his proddings. It seems he just can't cope with any social situation, but then again our home life is no better. I feel like I am on egg shells attempting to do 'normal' things but everything turns out to be a struggle. He is full of energy and very active so we do a lot of exercise, but again swimming classes and football classes are a struggle because he simply won't listen or follow the rules. It is very alienating because people don't understand from the outside that he is not just a 'naughty boy' and that we have tried everything to engage him in positive ways. My patience is at wits end as there does not seem to be any normality left. He started school in September and have already been called in to discuss his behaviour a few times. I am worried they will ask him to leave. Our GP has referred him to CAHMS for assessment. We are in North London and am wondering if anyone has any similar experiences of either or both these sorts of behavioural issues and or CAHMS?

He's had a lot of change in his life ( moving countries, houses, a dad who travels and is away a lot for work) but I just cannot understand how this or our parenting could have resulted in such extreme behaviour.

To add on a good day he can be so sweet and funny but it seems the ratio towards the negative is 80/20...this can't be right..

Apologies for such a long post, desperate for some advise.

it doesn't sound at all right to me. I would not delay, I'd get professional help. He is still at an impressionable mouldable age so do it before it's too late.

Lots of that sounds like my child who is the same age. The differences being her behaviour doesn't continue at nursery school where she is very quiet, and we have lots of sleeping/staying asleep/toileting and repeated soiling problems too.

This morning I was woken up by her dangling a set of cookie cutters she got for Christmas in front of my face and demanding to make biscuits. When we said we weren't going to get up and make biscuits at 6.30am New Year's Day, she threw herself on the ground and started screaming. I carried her kicking and screaming downstairs where she hit, kicked and bit for 45 minutes, including removing all her clothes and throwing them then weeing on the floor.

Solidarity. I know what you mean about one member making family life miserable. I can identify with that entirely.

Pia I read this thread earlier today and had tears in my eyes. This is exactly how I feel about my eldest son who is 10yrs. He has always been such a challenge, when they are younger you wonder how much is "normal" and doubt your parenting constantly. I am now at the stage where I think it is not normal and the school are helping with a CAMHS referral. I have read so many books and try to do all the right things, firm/consistent etc but the usual framework just doesn't work with us. I am getting to the stage where I am standing in the hall in the morning saying "ok boys time to leave for school now" and the 10yr old just looks at me and says "I'm not going" and he is nearly the same height as me and it doesn't feel like there is a lot I can do about it. So different from the toddler days when a tantrum can be ignored or the child can be lifted and moved/put in the car etc.

In a way I still feel like a failure- what have we done wrong etc. But I also feel sad. Things which should be fun are not, visiting people always goes badly, holidays are horrific, all the "fun" family stuff doesn't work for us. We have spent a lot of DS life doing things separately as he is so much better and easier one to one, or spending time planning and avoiding difficult situations.

I'm attending a parenting course for this age group starting next week and I hope to find some strategies that will help. I know a diagnosis doesn't actually mean there is a "cure" but I just hope we can find ways to make life less stressful, it is tiring walking on eggshells. And so often you just know people are looking at you saying your child is naughty and you're a bad and slack parent, when really you're just at the end of your tether and you child doesn't fit the usual box. People say kids are hard, but I'm with you when you say it shouldn't be this hard.

I feel for my youngest son who is 7 who has to put up with eldest behaviour as well, though also truly grateful that I am also getting to experience being a parent to a more conventional child who I can more easily be a textbook parent with- understands discipline/rules and just generally enjoys life etc.

It sounds like your sons school is aware and being helpful, I would absolutely do anything you can to help yourselves and him. I have read lots of books and this one is good, even if you child doesn't have this the strategies etc are helpful www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00X2ZW5LW/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o06_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Good luck xx

molly parenting courses can be great - I got a lot of support from a paretning course while I was waiting for assessments for my DS. If the parenting course is for neurotypical kids then you may eventually want to adapt some of the strategies. For example my DS has a processing delay so that just telling him to do something fails. His instinctive first reaction to hearing an instruction is to dig in and refuse. Some of the techniques fron the parenting course really supported his needs - like count-to-three and consequence, or WHEN-THEN- "WHEN you have put your shoes on THEN we can go to the park" simply because they gave him clear instructions and extra "processing time". (And the positive parenting parts really helped to rebuild our relationship) But as I learned more about his abilities and issues I also used: countdowns from ten; "we need to go to the shops, shall we go out now or in 10 minutes?" (I still use this - it's the difference between outright refusal and going out 10 minutes later!); "DS we are going to the park put your coat on" then a ten second pause and "DS - coat" (sounds abrupt but requires less language processing, I learned it as an autism-specific strategy); timetables and schedules and picture lists so we didn't have to rely on me telling him what to do. I could usually get DS to do what I wanted but I have had to accept that I can't expect him to do anything immediately when I ask.

The need to plan didn't go away, steering DS is like steering an oil tanker you have to plan the change of direction far in advance! And there were "normal" family activities we couldn't do, or we had to adapt and limit them and make a lot of allowances. But at least I wasted less energy trying to do things that could never work for DS and avoided a lot of pointless conflict and making "normal" but impossible demands which only undermined discipline.