Coping with 5yo DD awful behaviour when visiting relatives at Xmas

[Fukalite]

I'm dreading visiting grandparents at Xmas. Should be a lovely time and they always go to so much effort - but my 5yo 'changes' - literally as soon as she walks through their front door. She gets noisy/anxious/refuses to comply with adult requests/hits me/shouts at me/refuses to eat. Her behaviour is fine at school, mostly ok at home - but this shocking child emerges usually when visiting others or on playdates. Why?? My only strategy to get her to calm down - when visiting relatives - is to take her out in the car so we are back on 'our territory'. We use 'time out' at home which works, but when I try this outside our home it has no effect. Also sad because my grandparents rarely get to see her 'good side' - and I know her behaviour really upsets them. Any stategies/thoughts as to why she behaves this way would be greatly appreciated!!

Are you staying at their house? If so, could you stay at a cheap hotel instead?

I think you need to think carefully about everything and try to find out what is causing her behaviour. Behaviour is communication, especially at this age.
Does she get enough time to run around?
Has she just had a long journey?
Is she hungry or thirsty?
Are there lots of people?
Is there lots of noise?
Do people - excite her?
Do people expect her to be excessively quiet?

I would strongly suspect that there is a sensory overload. She probably can't cope with so long there, so prepare to pop in and out (can her Dad help?). Make sure she has snacks and drinks. Try to find her places to get away, and activities to do. Try to protect her from people who overwhelm her. Listen to what she says (including behaviour) and remove her from situations quicker rather than slower.
Does she have a comfort object?
Are there strong smells? If so could you give her a handkerchief with lavender or another nice essential oil on it?

I would also talk to her about how you expect her to behave. Ask her what would help her. Discuss how she feels in new places.

Do not beat yourself up.
And don't expect her to behave "like other children" or "how I did as a child". She is who she is, and needs help and support to cope with stressful situations. (I would also limit playdates for a bit if they are causing stress).

Thank you mummytime for your very helpful reply. A sensory overload makes sense. She is an only child and I think other people do excite her. She desperately wants to be there and in the middle of whatever is happening. Interestingly on playdates/visiting others etc she does not like me talking to other people, and a lot of her behaviour is to try and get my attention back. Cheap hotel would definitely work and has worked in the past. However, both sets of grandparents would insist/be offended if we didn't stay with them. I've talked about behavioural expectations before - we've written a little positive list about how to behaviour and shes kept it with her in a little bag, collecting stars. I might try that again. I shall also give lavender oil a try too - that's great. This behaviour also happens at parties. I had a horrendous experience recently when she got hit by a ball in a soft play party, screamed/tantrum/blamed the boy (who accidentally) threw it, I could not pacify her and the boy's mum thought something terrible had happened/was so apologetic. All I could say was that she overreacts. Unfortunately this was in front of all the other class mums. I do feel I should limit playdates/parties - but I also don't want to exclude her socially.

Just wanted to add that her behaviour is never a problem at parties/play dates if I don't attend - and similarly - if I leave my daughter soley in the care of grandparents/at their house, behaviour would not be a problem!

I would assume she was testing boundaries ( maybe gets bored there) and nip it in the bud. Talk her through your 'rules' for visiting relatives and then if she starts warn her once then time out then repeat ( and repeat and repeat).

Hmmm. Is she playing up to get your attention or because she knows you won't discipline her in the normal way?
Take toys to amuse her.
Insist on good behaviour. Warning then consequence. That could be sitting in the car or even going home!
If she throws a wobbly don't pacify. She's allowed to be upset or angry. She isn't allowed to scream.

Yes - think at parties/play dates/visiting relatives - I don't enforce the boundaries as well as I do at home. Probably because I try to avoid the embarrassment.

Why can't grandparents visit you instead then she's in her on environment

Sounds like she doesn't want to share you.
Do you go to lots of places together where she sees you interacting with others.

Just wondering if that she is either at home with you or on her own, say at school, is the options she is used to. So you giving your attention to GPs as well as her stresses her somehow?

We had same worries and behaviour etc at that age.
As PP have said She is probably worried about losing your attention while in an unfamiliar surrounding with the GPs- people she may not know that well but may feel she is expected to put in a 'special' category. It may be all too much to take on for her and acting up is a quick way of getting your attention back to her, ie feeling safe again. Negative attention still counts as attention, if she feels that's all that going to be on offer!

If you can't get the GPs to visit you over xmas to save yourself the stress, then at first perhaps try letting her stay physically close to you on arrival, taking some home toys along with her and then when she has warmed up a bit and knows you won't leave her there alone or whatever, maybe ask her if she wants to show them one of her toys. Or ask them to show her a toy they have from when their children were little etc. Or whatever- doesn't matter just any activity that gives direct GP attention to the DC with you there alongside. This worked for us, the GPs seems to be filed under interesting adults rather than a threat and the behaviours stopped.

The above is assuming that you have GPs who haven't forgotten what 4 year olds are like and that they are happy to be tocused on the child for a bit and not just talk exclusively to other adults as if child isn't present.

If your GPs can't manage that I would just accept it's not going to work very well till your DC are a bit older and minimise visits to GPs with the DC, maximising GPs visits to you, and offer them time you will visit them without your DC, if that's possible. Good luck. Try not to get stressed- 4 is still so young and this too shall pass!

Also, OP try not to make yourself feel responsible for GP feelings too - you say how much it upsets them when her behaviour isn't great. But she is only 4 and etc.
They are adults who will have seen kid behaviour before. There is nothing out of the range of ordinary here IME or from what I've seen with friends kids, from what you have described.
Do you think your GPs' expectations might be a bit unrealistic and/or they are putting a lot of pressure on themselves to make the visit perfect? If so, is it something you could talk about gently but openly with them too to take the pressure off them as well?

I have a 6 year old like this.
It happens when she has friends round or if we go out with family and friends.
In my dd case it's purely attention.
When she has friends round she shows off and can get v shouty and can be quite naughty. I've sent friends home early before because of this and told her it isn't acceptable to behave like it. I find the best way is to remind her just before the occasion that she is to not be shouty and rude to remember her manners and that if she is horrendous there will be consequences when we get home/friend leaves.
A lot of it happens when we are out with family for lunch for example as she knows we are in a public place and the boundaries won't be so easy to enforce so shel as the up and it will get worse and worse and worse.
When I ask her in the car why she thinks it's acceptable she doesn't know
They do play up at this sort of age as it's all about managing it. She's my third so I do remember it with the others at times.
I will take her outside with me if she's getting too bad and we will have a chat where I remind her it's not acceptable and also remind her the consequences will happen once we get home (no bed time kindle/no sweets that she's been waiting for etc etc)and that I will stick to it which I do.
This works the best. Trying to talk to them calmly in a room full of people doesn't work as they show off and laugh.
I also tell her that her behaviour is embarrassing not only for me but also for her as she looks like she has no manners and we know she does. That works aswell
Good luck

Depending on age of GPs it might have been that 'naughty' children were smacked! That fixed a lot of bad behavior!!

Little minx is manipulating you and being horribly attention seeking. Stop the mollycoddling and apologetic parenting and get a grip of it. Taking her to car gives her the exact one to one she is demanding. Ignore her behaviour. Better still pick her up, put her in another room and tell her she can come out once she starts behaving herself. Don't sit in there with her or communicate until she stops. This sensory overload stuff is making excuses for poor behaviour and tosh. All kids get excited and will,push boundaries. You can let them think world revolves around them or you can take control. What about at first such behaviour you go out for walk and leave granny to deal with her?

Crumbs I do agree with some of your points there as have seen it with all three of mine but the third seems to be the hardest one to get out of it.
She used to do it in shops a lot until one day I spoke loudly to her that she was being very rude and that the people in the shop were looking at her not thinking what a lovely girl but thinking how badly behaved she being.
She is a daddy's girl and so he's having to man up about right now as he can see after a particularly awful couple of hours out last weekend he's the one she will manipulate.
I was v cross by the time we all get home and just said to him as well as her that elder dd and myself didn't have a nice trip at all and he said neither did he. And all was due to the kicking off in every shop until he would buy her something!!

They are more clever than you give them credit for op and I find the parent that they tend to do it to is the one that needs reminding that they are being played. It just makes everyone miserable in the end.

Thanks so much for all your advice! I have tried taking to another room and ignoring her - she kicks the door and screams. As it's not my house, I can't really allow this. I take her to the car, but don't stay outside so she doesn't get my attention until she calms down. GP's are elderly and it's not easy for them to visit us. Think I'm just going to have to enforce very clear boundaries with her, and make sure I stick with them.

Sorry - don't stay inside the car that should read!!

Am also thinking back to the party where she was calling me 'big, fat mummy' and 'stupid mummy' in front of other adults/children who looked shocked. I took her to one side and told her we would leave if she continued. She did stop.

And yes! She laughs at me when I tell her off in a public place!

My partner tends to be oblivious to her behaviour and definitely avoids a confrontation. Which makes me question myself - but thanks for all your replies here. Think I've got to be a lot firmer!

GP's do live far away, and we don't see them often - so yes, there are high expectations when we visit. But they have a house full of toys, snacks, everything a child could wish for! And they give her lots of attention/play with her. Although rather than appreciating this, she is still pretty grumpy and rude!

Laughter shouldn't necessarily be seen as "defiance" it can be a shock reaction.

To be honest with my DC I used: tiredness and making it very clear what behaviour I expected of them in advance, and allowing some naughtiness when "not in public". It can also help to have a short phrase to signal their behaviour is wrong (No worked for me). And lots of distraction techniques from sweets during 2 minute silence, to giving new things to do, having surprises, and taking for "little walks".
But I tended to spend a lot of time monitoring their behaviour as we we're usually with DH's family (he'd have needed to do the same with mine). And you do need to learn the signs and triggers.
If you can't stay elsewhere then you need to insist on a room to retreat too when it gets too much, but I would shorten visits if at all possible.

But they have a house full of toys, snacks, everything a child could wish for! And they give her lots of attention/play with her. Although rather than appreciating this, she is still pretty grumpy and rude!

This sounds like massive overstimulation to me.