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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

OK. I've done Baby Whisperer PU/PD, I've tried NCSS - what do I do next?!

22 replies

cruisemum1 · 13/02/2007 21:00

Ds 5 months is a bugger to settle at night. He went through a really awful unsettled period during the nights recently but that is getting better slowly but surely. He is bf but currently weaning to ff and is also being weaned onto solids which he loves . The bane of my life however is bedtime settling. He is bf to sleep (won't settle any other way at bedtime) but continuously wakes and needs me for rocking/nursing/comfort. My dd is 9 yo and it is so unfair on her as dh works long hrs and is hardly ever here to take care of her or ds so I have to do this alone. He is shattered by 7pm, falls asleep, wakes, falls asleep, wakes, falls asleep - get the picture. I put him in his cot and he sometimes stirs - sees where he is and nods off again but only ever for around 5 - 15 mins. This scenario lasts for around 2 hours and means I don't get to have a relaxing bedtime goodnight with dd. She is great about it most nights but 23 weeks on is getting rather fed up that Mummy cannot do stuff wth her in the evenings.
Any suggestions for getting dd to settle?
btw - am not ready for cc/cio..... yet .

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Original poster

cruisemum1 · 13/02/2007 21:01

I'm also gonna post this thread in 'Sleep'

OP posts:

kbaby · 13/02/2007 21:38

ello again.

Could you get him to nap later in the afternoon say at 5/6pm which may keep him up later in the evening. At least that way you can spend time with DD instead of trying to get him to sleep. Once DD has gone to bed you can then put DS down.

I know its not an ideal situation and it means you wont get much evening on your own but it may help your DD

CountTo10 · 13/02/2007 21:49

Do you have a specific bedtime routine for him and if so what is it?

Original poster

cruisemum1 · 14/02/2007 07:59

count2ten - tea about 4:30pm, play till 6:00pm/6:30pm, bath, dress 4 bed in my room with low lights, bf, he sleeps, put in cot, up again cryimg/screaming, bf again, crying, try rocking, placing in cot, more crying, stroke face and on and on and on...... get the picture

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Berrie · 14/02/2007 08:07

What would happen if you roused him a little after bf as you put him down, not wide awake but just enough to know that you are putting him in bed and it's ok so he associates bed with a warm sleepy feeling rather than a panicky, where am I feeling?
Know from experience how horrid you must be feeling when nothing works. Poor you all!

Original poster

cruisemum1 · 14/02/2007 09:49

berrie - sometimes he does stir when put in cot but he rarely settles. I have tried daytime naps in cot on advice fm hv but won't have any of that! . feel very frustrated and demoralised about bedtimes these days....

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Original poster

cruisemum1 · 14/02/2007 14:11

hello?

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Berrie · 14/02/2007 14:27

Does he sleep otherwise or does this carry on all night?

Berrie · 14/02/2007 14:35

How much sleep is he getting during the day? Is it too much? Also what is the longest time you have left him to cry when he wakes? I know you don't want to do controlled crying - I didn't either though by the time he was 9 months we did end up saying well we'll go in 4 minutes, after a while we were able to up that to 5 minutes and we always went. We found eventually we could bear 10 minutes and he would usually be back to sleep by then. It's really hard and we tried baby whisperer and others and have come to the conclusion that some babies are just the way they are and it'll sort itself out in the end... Do think about training yourself not to go in minute by minute if you have to, set a timer and plug your ears!

CountTo10 · 15/02/2007 09:48

It does sound like he has an issue with being left in the cot and the day sleep is an ideal time to try and start getting him used to going down on his own cause its a shorter sleep. What about a comforter? My ds has had a blanket since about 2mths old cause we struggled to get him to settle on his own. He used to fall asleep on me and then we'd put him down. Naughty I know!! We had him in a sleep gro to keep him securely wrapped up which I think helped calm him as well. I echo berry with the point that I think you're going to have to do a bit of tough love. Whilst contolled crying might seem really hard, you might have no choice. Start small, leave it 1 min before going in and then build up from there. Its about security and letting them know you're still there. I do feel for you as it is such a hard thing.

Original poster

cruisemum1 · 15/02/2007 11:49

berrie- he did have a really unsettled sleep pattern from around 4mths to now but it is easing off and he can do 8 hrs straight again (on a good night). it is just the settling to sleep thing which is a major issue here, he screamed the place down last night when he realised he wasn't in my arms and did so on and off from 7 - 9.10pmm. my dd is getting fed up being left alone 5mths on. i have to break the sucking to sleep association but he won't have it!

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crumpet · 15/02/2007 12:02

I used to do the baby's last feed whilst reading his sister a story. That way she at least had some one-to-one attention, even though the baby was feeding. Is there anything you can do with your dd during the last feed? Even if its sitting in the bathroom chatting to her whilst she's in the bath and you're feeding?

crumpet · 15/02/2007 12:05

oh, and if you can sort out the day time naps in the cot you will be a long way there. Can you start creating some positive associations in the cot? I sued to pop ds in there with a musical mobile which he loved, while I went to the loo or folded laundry etc. Never longer than a few minutes at a time, but at least he got used to being in there.

Original poster

cruisemum1 · 15/02/2007 12:53

crumpet - I have done the putting him in the cot for play thing but not recently. I will start doing that again as of today! I know that it would really help if he could nap in their during the day but he just gets so beside himself and I cannot handle his distress . I do get incredibly frustrated about it but end up putting him in his buggy and wheeling him around the house which I loathe tbh, esp at w/e's when everyone is home. I feel that I should be able to do this properly but I am making such a hash of thigns. DD was a similar baby but she took a dummy so would settle herself with that. ds won't take one at all so that is a no-no here. I could do his last feed with dd around but the probs really begin once that last feed is done. She doesn't go to bed till around 8:30pm as she is 9yo and that is the time when I am up and down stairs comforting ds which can take 10 - 45mins. End of tether reached

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Berrie · 16/02/2007 08:29

Oh, don't feel you are making a hash of things. It's HARD when you are tired and desperate and you do what you have to do to get through it. It won't be for ever. Does sound like you need he needs to bond with his cot. How much sleep does he get in the day?

DizzyBint · 16/02/2007 08:42

did you look at his day time sleep as ncss suggests? did you do the sleep logs to look at the level of activity he needs before bed? best thing we did for dd was move bathtime to the morning rather than the evening, bath time was too exciting for her. also, did you try the pantley pull off technique she suggests in ncss? so you are gradually getting him used to falling asleep on his own?

MadamePlatypus · 16/02/2007 11:14

We have not really cracked this yet, but I have found a CD of white noise to be really useful. little sleepy head . It cuts out external noise, and most of the time resettles dd if she comes into light sleep.

RachelG · 16/02/2007 11:58

I read that it takes 15 minutes for a baby to go into deep sleep. Is it possible that he's not quite getting that far, so keeps calling you back? Maybe you could hold him for 15 minutes after he drops off, then lower him into the cot? I know we're meant to teach them to settle themselves etc, but this might help in the short-term?

I agree about CC - he's too young. The very very youngest age to do CC is 6 months. Before that they just feel abandonned and don't learn anything from it.

I also use a white noise CD - still do at 17 months.

If you're desperate and you've got a bit of spare cash, the Millpond Sleep Clinic are great. Have a look at the website.

swifterella · 16/02/2007 12:12

Hi, sorry I know that this isnt what you want to hear but sounds like CC would work for you. I disagree that 5 mnths is too young. do you have a proper bedtime routine? Oh and your not making a hash of it, this parenting lark is hard bloody work!!

malaleche · 16/02/2007 12:16

have only read op but cc works for me. its actually amazing how fast it works. have to go will finish pst later

Original poster

cruisemum1 · 16/02/2007 15:14

/hello all and thanks for posts. Just been run off my feet all day andnow have a few mins to catch up before school run!
Berrie- he naps for around 3 - 3.5hrs per day max. this is a vast improvement on a month ago when he was averaging 90mins . That is,apparently, about right for his age. None of hte naps are in his cot though which I would like to sort but at least he is napping.
Dizzy - I'm reading NCSS again but the pull off thing seems ineffective. Have you had any success with it? He has a good bedtime routine - peaceful and consistent, low lights, low level noise, calm etc. MAkes bugger all difference! Have you done NCSS to good effect?
MAdamPlatypus - ta for CD suggestion. 2nd one on here to suggest it so I will check one out asap!
Rachel - I agree that I could be puttng him down before he is in deep sleep but I really want to be puttng him down awake ideally! Ta for CD mention too
Swift - I did try cc but it was horrendous. I found it soooo distressing. I am not ruling it out, just not ready for it yet? How long did it take you?
more later.........

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swifterella · 16/02/2007 15:23

hi, i never actually needed to do it but my sister did it with her little boy at 6 mnths and he now sleeps 7-7. took her a week. you just have to be a toughie i think x

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